I would like to play an arithmancer, or what the common folk call a "mathemagician". In short, the character has discovered the "rules" that govern his world. With an abacus and a bag of seven magic dice, the arithmancer bends these rules to suit his ends.
Kinda metagamey, I know, but I think it could be fun! There's one ability in particular I would like him to have, but I'm not sure how powerful it is. I want him to be able to "see the math" around him. Currently, I've written the ability as a cantrip:
Numerical Sight
School divination; Level sorcerer/wizard 0
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components S, F (abacus)
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target or Area one creature, one object, or a 5-ft. cube
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
DESCRIPTION
You recognize the math inherent in all things, enabling you to see them as they truly are: a combination of numbers, symbols, and equations. When cast on a creature, object, or area, you can attempt a Knowledge (engineering) check to determine the absolute value of a single number related to the target. For example, you could determine an enemy’s hit points, the Disable Device DC of a trap, or the hardness of a wall. The DC of this check is equal to 10 plus the target’s CR (if it has one).
The spell was loosely inspired by the Numerologist regional trait.
What do you think? Is this a cantrip? A 1st level spell? A 9th level spell? Maybe it should be an arcane school power? It could be fun to create a focused arcane school based on Arithmancy. Would you allow a spell like this in your game?
The numbers in Pathfinder are really abstractions for running the game. They apply to players, but Characters usually think of such things. The Pathfinder system is a quick way to simulate a world that is much more complex then it is. If your character were to unveil the pure math of the universe, he wouldn't end up with a copy of the Pathfinder RPg core rule book, he would have a complex treatise with quantum mathematics or something.
If I wanted to play the character your describe, I would do it with fluff rather than crunch. Call spellcraft Arithmancy, all your spells are math formulas with the components being you abacus and probability generators etc. Many divination spells are ways to 'see the math.' Other spells actually change the math etc.
In regards to this particular question, if it is a cantrip I think it would be more limited. A spell that gives you DC for a skill check, for example, would be more in line in my opinion.
Deathwatch is the closest parallel to getting an exact HP total, and it only gives you a fairly wide range of options and is a first level cleric spell, although it does do a few other things as well.
Thanks for the feedback, Dave Justus!
I recognize that the Pathfinder system is meant to simulate a much more complex world, but I was tickled by the idea of a character who "knows" the rules. In the game itself, I imagine the character's belief that the universe is governed by a "system of numbers" would be viewed as harebrained nonsense.
I agree that fluff is a huge part of executing this concept. A lot of spells enable you to "change the math", but nothing lets you literally "see the math" the way I'd like this character to.
The spell feels a little too powerful to be a cantrip perhaps, but I can't see myself devoting a 1st level spell slot to it either. It's also worth noting that Deathwatch applies to all creatures within a 30 ft. cone and lasts 10 min./level, so Numerical Sight would be much more limited in area and duration (though much more versatile in its applications). It doesn't require a Knowledge check either.
One option could be to make it a first level spell, but allow the character to craft a wondrous item that enables him to use the spell constantly, like Deathwatch Eyes.
I'm also considering an Arithmancy focused arcane school. It would change the powers granted to the Transmutation arcane school. Numeric Sight would replace Telekinetic Fist, so you could use it a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
This spell allows you to metagame, which generally isn't a cool thing because it breaks immersion and gives GMs headaches.
For math spells, I can envision spells that let you see or calculate the physical properties of mundane items. Like a spell that lets you see an item's mass.
This spell allows you to metagame, which generally isn't a cool thing because it breaks immersion and gives GMs headaches.
For math spells, I can envision spells that let you see or calculate the physical properties of mundane items. Like a spell that lets you see an item's mass.
I agree that the spell is metagaming, but I think it could be fun with the right group and GM. When the idea of an Arithmancer occurred to me, I concluded that it would be weird to play a wizard who's all about math without acknowledging the math of the game itself. It can certainly be done, and doing so is probably the safer route, but exploring this idea was too amusing to resist.
Metagaming aside, I would love to receive any and all feedback on the spell itself. Thanks!
I would like to play an arithmancer, or what the common folk call a "mathemagician". In short, the character has discovered the "rules" that govern his world. With an abacus and a bag of seven magic dice, the arithmancer bends these rules to suit his ends.
Kinda metagamey, I know, but I think it could be fun! There's one ability in particular I would like him to have, but I'm not sure how powerful it is. I want him to be able to "see the math" around him. Currently, I've written the ability as a cantrip:
Numerical Sight
School divination; Level sorcerer/wizard 0
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components S, F (abacus)
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target or Area one creature, one object, or a 5-ft. cube
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
DESCRIPTION
You recognize the math inherent in all things, enabling you to see them as they truly are: a combination of numbers, symbols, and equations. When cast on a creature, object, or area, you can attempt a Knowledge (engineering) check to determine the absolute value of a single number related to the target. For example, you could determine an enemy’s hit points, the Disable Device DC of a trap, or the hardness of a wall. The DC of this check is equal to 10 plus the target’s CR (if it has one).The spell was loosely inspired by the Numerologist regional trait.
What do you think? Is this a cantrip? A 1st level spell? A 9th level spell? Maybe it should be an arcane school power? It could be fun to create a focused arcane school based on Arithmancy. Would you allow a spell like this in your game?
I think your idea is goofy, but fun. It reminds me of that old cartoon Action Man. I think it can be a cantrip as long as you also limit it to once a day. Then there can be a level 1 spell that lets you try a second time, maybe? And perhaps not let it target creatures. Or have another spell that lets you use knowledge engineering instead of other knowledge checks to identify monsters. You don't want entirely destroy the main uses of the knowledge skills, after all. Replicating those should be more difficult.
Since the mechanics of the game are an abstraction of reality, I think it makes more than perfect sense that these powers will return information in terms of the game's abstractions as well.
This spell allows you to metagame, which generally isn't a cool thing because it breaks immersion and gives GMs headaches.
For math spells, I can envision spells that let you see or calculate the physical properties of mundane items. Like a spell that lets you see an item's mass.
I agree that the spell is metagaming, but I think it could be fun with the right group and GM. When the idea of an Arithmancer occurred to me, I concluded that it would be weird to play a wizard who's all about math without acknowledging the math of the game itself. It can certainly be done, and doing so is probably the safer route, exploring this idea was too amusing to resist.
Metagaming aside, I would love to receive any and all feedback on the spell itself. Thanks!
How about instead, you get a fuzzy logic answer, much like how detect magic works?
I imagine it would be more like this
LazarX gets it.
This really makes me think of of Erfworld: Their universe follows game rules, and the characters are all aware of the quantum nature of things like levels and hit points.
But they (mostly) don't/can't metagame those statistics because they're, well, bad at math. They can add and subtract, but multiplication, especially with fractions, basically is beyond their ability.
They know a level 5 warlord is better than a level 4 warlord, and they know the exact bonus that gives to troops under their command, but can't figure out if that means they will win the upcoming battle or not. Or at least, not with the 'We will win this fight 72.5% of the time' level of precision a human being who understands dice and probability could.
They have a magical specialty called Mathamancy: these casters actually do math more complicated than basic addition. The protagonist (who is an actual human being and a gamer) is a de-facto mathamancer because of this.
It also reminds me of Red Mage.
Thanks for the commentary, Ross Byers! I hadn't heard of Erfworld before. It sounds funny!
I think your idea is goofy, but fun. It reminds me of that old cartoon Action Man. I think it can be a cantrip as long as you also limit it to once a day. Then there can be a level 1 spell that lets you try a second time, maybe? And perhaps not let it target creatures. Or have another spell that lets you use knowledge engineering instead of other knowledge checks to identify monsters. You don't want entirely destroy the main uses of the knowledge skills, after all. Replicating those should be more difficult.
Thanks, Excaliburproxy! I agree that this spell has the potential to trivialize knowledge skills. However, it would be used to obtain information that regular knowledge skills cannot. It does make Knowledge (engineering) much more useful though. Maybe, instead of using Knowledge (engineering), the spell could use Knowledge (mathematics)? That way, you have to invest in an otherwise pretty useless skill to make it work.
I decided to repackage the spell as a spell-like ability to limit its daily use. Below is my take on the Arithmancy Focused Arcane School. Mathematical Mist was taken from the Crystalline Dust Form ability Axiomites possess:
Associated School: Transmutation.
Replacement Powers: The following school powers replace the telekinetic fist and change shape powers of the transmutation school.
Numerical Sight (Sp)
You recognize the math inherent in all things, enabling you to see them as they truly are: a combination of numbers, symbols, and equations. As a standard action you can gaze at a creature, object, or 5-ft. area within 30 feet and attempt a Knowledge (mathematics) check to determine the absolute value of a single number related to the target. For example, you could determine an enemy’s hit points, the Disable Device DC of a trap, or the hardness of a wall. The DC of this check is equal to 10 plus the target’s CR (if it has one). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
Mathematical Mist (Su)
At 8th level, as a free action, you can transform your body into a golden crystalline cloud resembling a shifting mass of glowing mathematical symbols and equations. In this form you can fly (30 ft. good maneuverability) and gain the incorporeal quality. You can use spells and spell-like abilities but cannot make physical attacks. This transformation lasts for a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
Thanks for the commentary, Ross Byers! I hadn't heard of Erfworld before. It sounds funny!
It's pretty good. If you're trying to catch up, though, you want to start with Book 1, then go back to read Book 0 sometime later. I think the rest of the archive is more of less in order.
Any thoughts on the Arithmancy Focused Arcane School? Is Numerical Sight better as a school power?