Separate charisma and beauty as two stats

[Kimera757]

I can't agree.

I like how Fate handles this. There's a "stunt" (basically a feat) called Attractive. An Attractive character gets +2 to social skill checks against anyone who might be attracted to them. Note that a character without social skills (no Presence, for instance, so the equivalent of low Charisma, no Rapport, the equivalent of Diplomacy) can still make use of that, and a social character might not take the stunt too. It would, at most, work on just over half the population anyway.

Beauty (or otherwise being physically appealing, even if not sexually) is already part of Charisma. But only part.

[SeeleyOne]

Andrew R wrote:

I would use a trait for being very attractive (there is charming already), maybe a feat for being a rare extreme beauty. We do not need another stat.

This is the way to go. For being ugly you could use Flaws and Drawbacks.

[Kazaan]

Quantum Steve wrote:

So, Charisma is as much a measure of appearance as it is personality, personal magnetism, and ability to lead, and appearence is part of Charisma in exactly the same way as muscle and physical power are a part of Strength.

Appearance, yes. Beauty, no. People conflate the terms 'Beauty' and 'Appearance', arbitrarily deciding that "higher" appearance = more beautiful and "lower" appearance = more ugly. Charisma measures the power of your appearance because it is the mental aspect of how you leverage and use your appearance as a tool. High Charisma individuals aren't necessarily beautiful, but a truly Beautiful person probably has high Charisma because they have an attractive appearance and Charisma is the volume of how powerful a given appearance is. If you're good looking, low Charisma means you're "just a pretty face", average Charisma means you're "averagely good looking", and high Charisma means you're "drop-dead gorgeous". Higher still, entering into the realm of beautiful immortal outsiders, you get the kind of beauty that can potentially collapse a poor mortal's mind if they aren't mentally prepared for it. And the same can be said for Ugly. If you're ugly, low Charisma means you're just "eww gross", average Charisma means you're "definitely not a looker" and higher Charisma means "OH MY GOD KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!". Higher still, eldritch abominations are so ugly that it collapses the sanity of mentally unprepared mortals that gaze upon them. This isn't a number line with "Ugly" for lower values and "Beautiful" for the higher ones. It's a number line with just one qualifier; just beauty or just ugly or just noble. Higher charisma means more of any single given quality.

[Jeven]

Sorcerer-magic is powered by a beautiful face and fine physique. In fact most sorcerers double as fashion models and grace the covers of fashion magazines in their spare time.

[Lincoln Hills]

I've no interest in a beauty stat. Most of my Pathfinder sessions revolve around ancient ruins, cryptic conspiracies or the mysteries of the cosmos. If any of my campaigns suddenly focuses on swimsuit competitions, I'll reconsider, but I anticipate no such eventuality.