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because little girls know better than adult comic artists what is cool
I agree. Laser sword girl is awesome.
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A YD post I love. What is the world coming to?
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Cooool.
Still love power girl though.
A YD post I love. What is the world coming to?
A sign of the End Times.
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Um...I don't see how they all that different...except for them being of young girls...
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Um...I don't see how they all that different...except for them being of young girls...
Mainly because their superpower isnt cleavage
I still find it fascinating that namor gets a pass.
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because little girls know better than adult comic artists what is cool
I agree. Laser sword girl is awesome.
Absolutely cute!
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Um...I don't see how they all that different...except for them being of young girls...Mainly because their superpower isnt cleavage
So, is their superpower tutus?
Seriously, these are adorable, but I don't see the problem with traditional superheroine costumes. They simply know their target audience; teenage boys.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think the issue is that they aren't the only audience and that there are people in that audience (including teenage boys) that find the overabundance of those kinds of costumes groan-worthy. And from what I remember reading, they aren't the largest anymore. If I recall correctly, the average comic book reader is a young adult in their 20s.
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If this is about violating social conventions of equality and apealing to males then why even have female supers wear Clothes? Rules are there to limit us. To hell with social norms and niceties. Power girl can run around naked and rip genitals off male villains with her teeth.
This is about girl superheroes who appeal to girls (not progressivly older guys).
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So, is their superpower tutus?
Hey, don't hate on superpowered tutus. They might end up being a magical girl, and everyone knows that a magical girl's power is directly proportional to how cute her costume is.
In all seriousness, I tend to prefer cute or badass superhero costumes but I'm not going to say people who like their fanservice are having wrongbadfun either; fanservice has it's place just as much as everything else. Variety would be nice to see though.
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I would play the daylights out of the game about the knight lady with the pink hood.
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So, is their superpower tutus?Hey, don't hate on superpowered tutus. They might end up being a magical girl, and everyone knows that a magical girl's power is directly proportional to how cute her costume is.
In all seriousness, I tend to prefer cute or badass superhero costumes but I'm not going to say people who like their fanservice are having wrongbadfun either; fanservice has it's place just as much as everything else. Variety would be nice to see though.
Emphasis by me. This is more or less what I was trying to say, alchemicGenius just said it much more tactfully. I enjoy cheesecake, and am getting a bit tired of seeing people ranting about it and trying to guilt-trip those who like it. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with more realistic and practical outfits, but saying everyone should be offended by the traditional costumes is absurd.
You're looking at it wrong. So far as I'm aware, nobody's trying to guilt-trip you for appreciating those designs. It's about shaming the people responsible for saturating the market with nothing but.
You're looking at it wrong. So far as I'm aware, nobody's trying to guilt-trip you for appreciating those designs. It's about shaming the people responsible for saturating the market with nothing but.
The linked blog, you are probably right about. The title of this thread however is aimed at people who are members of these forums, which I doubt includes very many of the artists who work for Marvel/DC.
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Ivan,
The problem is that just cheesecake is boring.
The male heroes have a variety of body shapes and skin with the near naked being an aberration (Namor). Female superheroes have pretty much one body type with porn star breasts and hips narroewer than their head, spine-breaking poses and could wear dental floss to increase the surface area covered. The exceptions (Current Miss Marvel, Kitty Pryde, Big Barda) are dressed normally. See the difference? On one side the sexy is the exception, on the other the non-sexy is the exception. And people are getting a bit fed up with that discrepancy.
Ivan,
The problem is that just cheesecake is boring.
The male heroes have a variety of body shapes and skin with the near naked being an aberration (Namor). Female superheroes have pretty much one body type with porn star breasts and hips narroewer than their head, spine-breaking poses and could wear dental floss to increase the surface area covered. The exceptions (Current Miss Marvel, Kitty Pryde, Big Barda) are dressed normally. See the difference? On one side the sexy is the exception, on the other the non-sexy is the exception. And people are getting a bit fed up with that discrepancy.
From my previous post, emphasis added:
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with muore realistic and practical outfits, but saying everyone should be offended by the traditional costumes is absurd.
I am quite aware of the difference. And I'm not trying to defend all cheesecake, all the time. I just don't like being told that I should be offended by something that I happen to enjoy. The linked blog is great and has plenty of cool outfits, and I agree there is plenty of room for costumes like that in the industry. My issue is with this thread title and yd's attitude after my first post.
...it has just occurred to me that I am offended for being told I should be offended...I feel dumb now...
Not that it changes my point, but I do feel a bit silly.
EDIT: LazarX, please see my post immediately before yours. I understand the need for diversity in costume styles.
You're looking at it wrong. So far as I'm aware, nobody's trying to guilt-trip you for appreciating those designs. It's about shaming the people responsible for saturating the market with nothing but.
i think quite the opposite. It's a safe way to shame someone's tastes, I've found.
That's not what's being said. The big problem with female costumes is that for the most part they ALL are drawn with the same fault of cheesecake emphasis. We could use some service for those of us who want other than Robert Liefield's style of drawing.Emphasis by me. This is more or less what I was trying to say, alchemicGenius just said it much more tactfully. I enjoy cheesecake, and am getting a bit tired of seeing people ranting about it and trying to guilt-trip those who like it. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with more realistic and practical outfits, but saying everyone should be offended by the traditional costumes is absurd.So, is their superpower tutus?Hey, don't hate on superpowered tutus. They might end up being a magical girl, and everyone knows that a magical girl's power is directly proportional to how cute her costume is.
In all seriousness, I tend to prefer cute or badass superhero costumes but I'm not going to say people who like their fanservice are having wrongbadfun either; fanservice has it's place just as much as everything else. Variety would be nice to see though.
I also love how this suddenly became a problem when liefeld appeared.
I still find it fascinating that namor gets a pass.He gets it because he is the exception rather than the rule. Until very recently, most heroines wear very little while most heroes cover up. I think Cyclops, who absorbs sunlight to fuel his power shows less skin than Rogue, who can kill people with accidental contact.
rogues been around for awhile, almost always wearing a skin tight black outfit with green psuedo swimsuit over it, or a yellow and green skin tight outfit with a short leather jacket over it. If this outfit changed in recent years, then its quite recent-shes always covered up her skin for the reasons you mentioned. In fact, I'd love to see this new outfit you insinuate.
The pink-hooded knight is definitely my favorite. I also kinda like that ninja turtley...aw, who am I kidding, they all kick ass.
Personally, I never really cared for many of the old costumes on either gender. After a while, a lot of them just seemed to look the same (repetitive body builds didn't really help, of course—and I think we all know that women superheroes had a certain area of the body that did not exactly vary).
That's not to say they were all lame, but I'm pretty much gonna favor new designs no matter what. As long as the heroine still looks badass, skimpy is fine. That being said, a lot of great designs (the "cloak-and-dagger" look, for instance) just look ridiculous if you try to make them revealing.
I would play the daylights out of the game about the knight lady with the pink hood.
I played it, it was called Soul Calibur V.
In all seriousness though I agree, it was a pretty boss costume.
I still find it fascinating that namor gets a pass.He gets it because he is the exception rather than the rule. Until very recently, most heroines wear very little while most heroes cover up. I think Cyclops, who absorbs sunlight to fuel his power shows less skin than Rogue, who can kill people with accidental contact.
Since when is Cyclops solar powered? I thought his eyebeams were projected because his eyes were a magical portal to the Punch Dimension or something like that.
Comic books are weird.
I would play the daylights out of the game about the knight lady with the pink hood.I played it, it was called Soul Calibur V.
I was meaning the RPG or side-scrolling beat-em-up added along with the picture and drawing. I'm not a fan of fighting games.
Y'know, if we're gonna be technical, Superman is kinda solar-powered. Those superheroes sure love their renewable energy sources.
I was going to make an Al Gore joke here, but in light of the recent thread, seemed a tad unshrewd.
Certainly not. The problem existed before, but Liefield and his imitators exaggerated it even more. Though the men were worse than the women.That's not what's being said. The big problem with female costumes is that for the most part they ALL are drawn with the same fault of cheesecake emphasis. We could use some service for those of us who want other than Robert Liefield's style of drawing.I also love how this suddenly became a problem when liefeld appeared.
Soft condemnation before his coming at best, whispers at worst.
Since the 80s more or less. Sometimes directly, sometimes the solar energy powers the gates. It doesn't come up often. I wonder how many writers actually know about it. He can absorb other forms of energy, though more painfully and dangerously, and has done so when his power ran low or he needed an uberboost.I would play the daylights out of the game about the knight lady with the pink hood.I played it, it was called Soul Calibur V.
In all seriousness though I agree, it was a pretty boss costume.
Since when is Cyclops solar powered? I thought his eyebeams were projected because his eyes were a magical portal to the Punch Dimension or something like that.I still find it fascinating that namor gets a pass.He gets it because he is the exception rather than the rule. Until very recently, most heroines wear very little while most heroes cover up. I think Cyclops, who absorbs sunlight to fuel his power shows less skin than Rogue, who can kill people with accidental contact.
I have vague, vague memories of this- I think it was dropped after a single storyline, please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Somehow i don't see the leopard girl mouse girl partnership ending well.
Try google. It's the one with bare arms and cleavage, although she does still wear gloves, which vary from mini-gloves to opera-style in size depending on the artist.rogues been around for awhile, almost always wearing a skin tight black outfit with green psuedo swimsuit over it, or a yellow and green skin tight outfit with a short leather jacket over it. If this outfit changed in recent years, then its quite recent-shes always covered up her skin for the reasons you mentioned. In fact, I'd love to see this new outfit you insinuate.I still find it fascinating that namor gets a pass.He gets it because he is the exception rather than the rule. Until very recently, most heroines wear very little while most heroes cover up. I think Cyclops, who absorbs sunlight to fuel his power shows less skin than Rogue, who can kill people with accidental contact.
found it. Still not impressed with the argument. Its a thinly updated version of a much older outfit, modified to include *gasp* a zipper. A bit of cheesecake perhaps, depending on the artist but not deserving of such a comparison. Stick with white queen,her outfits will serve your cause much better.
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That's got me thinking...I wonder what online usernames would make great comic book characters?
Yellow Dingo: The lone Australian superhero, Yellow Dingo was once a small-time villain named The Petitioner who liked to send strange petitions to other countries' rulers. One day, though, a terrible villain saw a petition meant for the Duke of Wales demanding that all supers be sent to the moon. Seeing the odd brilliance in the Petitioner's strategy, the villain attempted to recruit him.
The Petitioner, uneasy with the villain's refusal to meet employment terms the villain would later describe as "really f!%@ing stupid", refused. Outraged, the villain had the man tied up and thrown into the Australian Outback—not far from the construction site of Australia's first nuclear plant.
The Petitioner was not seen for many years, until one dark night, when a strange man rode out of the Outback to stop a bank robbery. Calling himself Yellow Dingo, this new superhero had been bitten by a radioactive...something from Australia...and given the power to control all beasts, birds and vermin that come from Down Under.
Now, Yellow Dingo fights alongside his fellow superheroes, although he still sends the damn petitions every now and then.
And in case you guys are wondering how I made the jump from "Commie Superman" to "Yellow Dingo, member of the Avengers", my thought process went kinda like this:
1. Oh, look, it's yellowdingo.
2. Oh, he said something political.
3. I should make fun of him in some small way.
4. But how?
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Those costumes are cute. Of course, if you watch your Saturday morning cartoons, you know this style is nothing new. There are plenty of "normally" dressed or covered up heroes on TV and in kids' comics. But a few points remain in order.
Firstly, somebody has to point out that once again we have here the modern American hypocrisy. That is, that it is somehow wrong for a superheroine to show cleavage, but it's perfectly fine for little girls to run around with swords and knives. Read: sex = bad, mmm'kay? Violence = real, real good.
Secondly, not every female superhero shows cleavage. Some do, but as I've pointed out time and time again, the most naked heroes in Fantasy and Sci-Fi are generally male (Conan, Tarzan, etc.) and nobody ever runs to their rescue or complains about the exploitation of men. Can you tell me with a straight face that there is something inherently wrong with Spider-Woman's costume that cannot be applied to Spider-Man's? Both are tight fitting and both completely cover, or nearly so. Should I be afraid that because there are boobs on Spider-Woman's chest, that civilization is doomed to fall? How about the prominent bulge in Spider-Man's crotch that haunted his comics all through the 'nineties? Has the world ended and I just didn't notice?
Thirdly, there is nothing wrong with liking tight or revealing costumes on human beings. Certainly, everybody thinks it's okay to like them on guys. It's a double standard to x them from females. Titillation is not evil. It's a normal part of human nature. And so-called "objectification"? Really? Has there ever, ever been a study (other than one paid-for by James Dobson or Reader's Digest and conducted by Christian think tanks sans actual scientists) that actually PROVED that such a thing exists? Have any of you ever - EVER - known a guy who looked at a picture of Ms. Marvel, put down the comic, and said to himself, "You know, now that I've seen that picture, I'm convinced that women are nothing but inhuman automatons built for my sole sexual pleasure?"
Hogwash.
I've never known a girl who looked at Supergirl and came away convinced that she was inferior and ugly. You know who made me feel bad about my body growing up? It wasn't a comic book or Stallone or anybody on TV. It was other kids, bullying me to make their own sad selves feel better. Yes, I am a guy, but give me a break. Girls are mean to each other. We all know it. Comic books are the least of their troubles.
We call these sorts of "acceptable" witch hunts "moral panic." You'd think a bunch of people playing a game that was banned by reactive parents as "satanic" would know better by now.
Until very recently, most heroines wear very little while most heroes cover up. I think Cyclops, who absorbs sunlight to fuel his power shows less skin than Rogue, who can kill people with accidental contact.
Since when is Cyclops solar powered? I thought his eyebeams were projected because his eyes were a magical portal to the Punch Dimension or something like that.
Since the 80s more or less. Sometimes directly, sometimes the solar energy powers the gates. It doesn't come up often. I wonder how many writers actually know about it. He can absorb other forms of energy, though more painfully and dangerously, and has done so when his power ran low or he needed an uberboost.
I have vague, vague memories of this- I think it was dropped after a single storyline, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Since I don't care one way or the other what heroines wear (or don't) and find the discussion of it just kind of silly... (The title of this thread is baiting and the blog linked has some neat designs, I can say that much and leave it...) I'll instead weigh in primarily on this point:
Originally canon claimed that the source of Cyclops's energy was from the absorption of solar energy. It was broadened to include "cosmic" (much like Havok) and other photonic energies (none of which would be in any way reflected or diminished by the clothes he wore regardless.)However, it has since been discovered that his eyes act as portals to a universe that has effectively nothing in it but an energy that reacts a specific way when crossing the threshold of that portal, producing the effect of his optic blast in the manner we are familiar with it.
It's all very psuedo-sciencey... and detailed in the Marvel Wikia page for his character.
Most characters requiring the absorption of any energy for conversion to any other purpose have never had such absorption hindered in any notable way by what they were wearing unless their was a reason for it.
For e.g., Havok & Madrox wore suits that were DESIGNED to limit their absorption capabilities... again those were specially designed for that purpose because of limitations they had in controlling their powers. If they wore anything else from underwear to a full body suit of armor, their absorption of energy relative to their power was unaffected.
Rogue's power is a special case and doesn't deal with "energy absorption" but the powers and memories of a target. That required physical contact from the source because those things she absorbed were not "ambient" or "directed" so to speak. And before she acquired control of her power, she DID in fact wear a full body outfit and even the occasional hood to prevent unwanted contact. Over time she grew more confident.
Cyclops? He's mostly just a militant control freak. That why dresses like that.
Me? I'm just a geek. That why I addressed mostly only this. :P
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Firstly, somebody has to point out that once again we have here the modern American hypocrisy. That is, that it is somehow wrong for a superheroine to show cleavage, but it's perfectly fine for little girls to run around with swords and knives. Read: sex = bad, mmm'kay? Violence = real, real good.
Trying to wrap my head around how you can so severely twist the meaning of hypocrisy to "Condoning one thing but not an entirely unrelated thing"
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Thirdly, there is nothing wrong with liking tight or revealing costumes on human beings. Certainly, everybody thinks it's okay to like them on guys. It's a double standard to x them from females. Titillation is not evil. It's a normal part of human nature. And so-called "objectification"? Really? Has there ever, ever been a study (other than one paid-for by James Dobson or Reader's Digest and conducted by Christian think tanks sans actual scientists) that actually PROVED that such a thing exists? Have any of you ever - EVER - known a guy who looked at a picture of Ms. Marvel, put down the comic, and said to himself, "You know, now that I've seen that picture, I'm convinced that women are nothing but inhuman automatons built for my sole sexual...
I am stunned that you can't see the objectification of women. Do you live under a rock? Have you NEVER seen an advertisement? And this is NOT a partisan issue at all. ANY woman who wants to be treated like any man on the job has to face this issue left and right alike. We are judged not on merit but on how attractive we look, while men with half the qualifications get promoted above us.