Hello!
I have four 9th level characters in the Kingmaker Game I'm DMing right now. The group consists of a Human Tetori Monk, an Oread Cleric, a Goblin Ranger (bow), and a Ratfolk Oracle.
Im just having an issue with them easily taking care of the final boss...
They have arrived into Vordekai's throne room together and just had it off with him in serious of verbal diplomacy checks to try and get him to "surrender" (hah).
The cleric and oracle are basically out of spells and the monk is at a 7 Wisdom (from the Soul Eaters), but I still think they could easily take out Vordekai (even with the Greater Water Elemental, which I moved back into the throne room as his minion for the final battle).
The Tetori Monk's CMB bonus to grapple is +17 (CMD is 35), and he has all the grappling feats (greater grapple, rapid grappler, etc) and all the Snapping Turtle Style Feats which makes him very dangerous. At 9th, he can now counter freedom of movement and magical bonuses to escape grapples with but a single Ki Point.
How can Vordekai deal with him in combat to prevent being grappled, or better yet, what can Vordekai do to survive the grapple? With only the 2 Dimension Doors Prepared (for healing and coming back) its gonna be tough for him to continually avoid getting grappled.
I know Vordekai's CMD is strong, but his CMB isn't high enough to break the grapple. Are there some grapple rules for being large sized that I'm missing?
Im totally open to changing spells around etc, and he has played with them significantly from far distances and should know their strengths and weaknesses.
Any ideas?
Thanks for the help in Advance!
Have Vordekai fly. Your monk will have a much more difficult time of grappling him if he can't reach him. I'm sure he will find a way eventually (hell, he may even be able to jump 15 feet into the air for all I know), but if he's that proficient and can manage to grapple V, you can't punish him for doing what he does best. Keep in mind that Bestow Curse has a range of touch, so he's putting himself right within the lich's grasp...
Well, he can jump pretty high.
The bestow curse is a good idea but it requires a somatic component. Vordekai would still have to make a CMB check to be able to move his hands.
Fly is probably the best first tactic. Thanks for the help!
Touch spells can be 'held,' so if he can cast it beforehand, it should be fine. He might not even need to cast - a lich's paralysis touch should stop any grappling going on if the monk fails his save. It's a touch attack, and he can do those if he's only grappled.
Ray of enfeeblement is a possibility, if V's CMD is high enough, but I'd combo it with Ray of Exhaustion, myself. (But then, I'm evil, and I'd prepare two just in case he resists it the first time.)
Anything that gives a miss chance should be considered as a buff as well. Blur, displacement, heck, even darkness(since he's a human and doesn't have darkvision) can work. I'd probably combo darkness and fly, and if he still manages to touch V, much less grapple him...I tip my hat to him.
Touch spells can be 'held,' so if he can cast it beforehand, it should be fine. He might not even need to cast - a lich's paralysis touch should stop any grappling going on if the monk fails his save. It's a touch attack, and he can do those if he's only grappled.
Won't Vordekai still have to make CMB check against the monk's super high CMD and then the Monk gets a Fort Save to resist?
Anything that gives a miss chance should be considered as a buff as well. Blur, displacement, heck, even darkness(since he's a human and doesn't have darkvision) can work. I'd probably combo darkness and fly, and if he still manages to touch V, much less grapple him...I tip my hat to him.
I really like the "miss chance" idea from all of those spells you listed, as well as Ray of Enfeeblement or Exhaustion during those first turns.
One of the suggestions in there is to effectively have V have spells which split the battlefield in twain - wall effects etc. That way, some of the hard hitters can be kept at bay whilst he deals with the squishies... :)
The wall spells would be pretty good at countering the melee fighters. Without an arcane caster it will be hard to get to him (especially if Big V is flying).
My cleric in the group has 1 Dispel Magic prepared he hasn't used...he'll definitely find some use this fight!
Thanks for the suggestions so far!
Touch spells can be 'held,' so if he can cast it beforehand, it should be fine. He might not even need to cast - a lich's paralysis touch should stop any grappling going on if the monk fails his save. It's a touch attack, and he can do those if he's only grappled.Won't Vordekai still have to make CMB check against the monk's super high CMD and then the Monk gets a Fort Save to resist?
CMB: Not if he's already cast the spell. If it's just waiting in his hand to touch the guy, then no further rolls required beyond the touch attack itself.
He does get a save though yes.
Like Orthos says, he takes a -2 to his touch attack roll, but he can still take it. While obviously a little suboptimal against a Monk, Vordakai can still try using his paralysis touch as a desperation move. After all, if it works, it's permanent!
Lastly, a reminder about the other big effect a lich has: FEAR AURA! It would basically give the shaken condition to characters of this level, and even a -2 to CMB and saves could make a difference in the coming fight. All he has to do is fail a will save at the beginning of the fight.
So, how low did those Soul Eaters bring his Wis down again? >:)
Give Vordakai a shirt of immolation; remove the ring of protection +2 from the treasure he's collected.
Have Vordekai specialized in Conjuration (Teleportation) and just jump out of grapples.
From: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/wizard.html
Teleportation School
Associated School: Conjuration.
Replacement Power: The following school power replaces the acid dart power of the conjuration school.
Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
Thankfully, a touch is just a touch (whew!). The Paralysis AND the Fear Aura will be helpful vs. the grapples.
The Shirt of Immolation is a great idea, it would be an awesome treasure for the grappler after the battle as well.
The Teleportation Power is perfect. Just one question though, would Vordekai be able to cast his spells after this wizard ability or would he have to wait a turn? Its a swift action, and it would be very strong to be able to teleport then cast. Or is this more like the Dimension Door official spell?
Since it says "as if using dimension door," I'd rule he has to end his turn after using it.
But, let him try to cast while grappled first, then shift. If he gets the spell off, great; if he fails, the monk feels useful. Win-win.