I like the IDEA of the Downtime rules, but they look easy to "game" in silly ways. I'm trying to build a thieves' guild and can't help but notice that raising an army of soldiers would be more profitable (+5 gp per day with soldiers instead of +2 gp per day with scofflaws).
Maybe I'm just confused on how to earn money with an organization. How DO you do that, anyway?
Let's say I have a modest thieves' guild with one team each of scofflaws, cutpurses, and soldiers (enforcers). The scofflaws add +2 gp, the cutpurses add +3 gp, and the soldiers add +5 gp.
Does that mean my guild earns 10 gp per day total?
Does the guild have to make an "earnings" check once per day, with a +10 to the roll from these teams, and then earn whatever the check is divided by 10 in gp every day? If this is the case, what is the "earnings" check based on? One of the guildmaster's skills?
I feel like I'm missing something important.
This one catches a few people out. (Basically, the answer is the last one).
Buildings and organisations earn capital using a "skilled earnings check" without any skill bonus, just with the bonus the building/organisation gets.
Mechanically, the only character that can use a skill to make a skilled earnings check is the PC. Buildings/organisations allow you to make more dice rolls, with their own bonuses. The rules are abstract, and the bonus an organisation provides is a replacement for the organisation's skill bonus (and it makes zero sense for a building to have a skill bonus to Diplomacy, for example). To keep the two types of "earners" as similar as possible, they both just use a bonus.
So, in your example, the guild makes a roll of 1d20+10 each day, divides the result by 10, and earns that much gold. This is completely separate to, and in addition to, any roll the PC might make on the same day for his own skilled earnings check.
Thanks for the info.
With the obviously superior earning potential of the soldier teams, why would anyone put together a team of scofflaws?
Thanks for the info.
With the obviously superior earning potential of the soldier teams, why would anyone put together a team of scofflaws?
...aaaand crickets. Got it. :^)
Hey, I'm in the UK, let me get some sleep and a morning's work done before I spend my lunch break writing an answer! :p
Scofflaws is a bad example, because there's info missing about their levels from their entry, so I'm going to compare Cutpurses and Soldiers.
Cutpurses
Earnings gp, Goods, or Labor +3
Create 3 Influence, 1 Labor (110 gp); Time 1 day
Size 5 people
Upgrades To Robbers
Cutpurses are minor thieves (often youths) who earn money from petty crimes such as pickpocketing or stealing items from market stalls. They are typically 1st-level commoners (NPC Codex 256), experts (NPC Codex 260), or rogues (NPC Codex 144) with 1 rank in Perception , Sleight of Hand , and Stealth .
Soldiers
Earnings gp, Influence, or Labor +5
Create 3 Goods, 2 Influence, 5 Labor (220 gp); Time 2 days
Size 5 people
Upgrades From Guards; Upgrades To Archers, Bureaucrats, Cavalry, Elite Soldiers
Soldiers are trained in combat and have the means and will to kill your enemies. Unlike Guards, Soldiers actively engage in fighting on behest of a leader (although you can make Soldiers act as Guards). Depending on the nature of your organization, they might be enforcers rather than military-style soldiers. They are typically 1st-level warriors, each with scale mail, a longsword, a heavy wooden shield, and javelins.
To start off, Cutpurses are cheaper to acquire. 110gp vs 220gp. For double the money, you're not getting double the bonus. You'd be better off hiring 2 teams of Cutpurses to net a total +6 to their earnings check, compared to the +5 the soldiers provide, and recruiting two 1-day teams as an organisation takes the same time as a single 2-day team of Soldiers.
Second, their benefits are different: if all you care about is gp, the Cutpurses are better (as shown above), same with labour, but you might need influence capital, in which case the Cutpurses are less than useless to you. But if you want goods, Soldiers aren't going to help at all.
Third, an organisation of 10 Cutpurses, each with a rank in Perception, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth, has a vastly different skill set than a team of 5 warriors who have armour, swords, shields and javelins. Teams are available for other tasks than earning capital: you are their employer. If you need to rob a place quietly, the organisation of Cutpurses is going to do you more good than dragging along 5 guys in metal armour who know how to hit things with a sharpened metal bar.
So, in conclusion, if all you care about is gp, get Cutpurses. If you want labour capital, get Cutpurses. If you want goods capital, get Cutpurses. If you want influence capital, get Soldiers. If you want an organisation skilled at roguish things beyond hitting people, get Cutpurses. If you want an organisation skilled at hitting people, get soldiers, but since Cutpurses can be 1st level rogues with 1d6 sneak attack, they're not exactly a shabby second choice in that regard.
The Downtime rules aren't particularly balanced. Many rooms or teams are just plain less effective than others and still cost more. Aside from roleplaying flavor there is little benefit to starting an illegal operation, and you may well need to add non-productive rooms to any owned building to facilitate it. Secret Rooms allow you to hide things but give no inherent bonus to earnings, which seems to be a common theme. Many of the cooler rooms give you few or no concerete bonuses. Why do you need a secret room when your cutpurses can meet in the office?
I thought about building a either an Inn or a Waterfront as a base for a general-purpose spy/smuggling network. An Inn from the pre-built list costs 2130gp and can produce Influence or GP effectively, but Goods and Labor very poorly. A Waterfront costs 2680gp, so slightly more, but can produce Goods, Labor, Influence or GP effectively. It doesn't make a huge amount of sense.