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If a Warpriest takes a Heavy Shield as their sacred weapon, how does the Bashing enchantment interact with the sacred weapon damage?
Bashing
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Weight —; Price +1 Bonus
DESCRIPTIONA shield with this special ability is designed to perform a shield bash. A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a bashing weapon of two size categories larger (a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage). The shield acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash. Only light and heavy shields can have this ability.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTSCraft Magic Arms and Armor, bull's strength; Cost +1 bonus
If a first level warpriest were to somehow obtain and use a bashing shield does the shield do 1d8 damage (1d4>1d6>1d8, which is greater than the 1d6 for a 1st level Warpriest sacred weapon damage), or does it do 2d6? (1d6>1d8>2d6 as taking a Warpriest sacred weapon damage and counting it as two sizes larger)
My instinct tells me its one or the other, that they don't stack with each other. I could very well be wrong here, but that is what I think.
If you want a lot more mileage from bashing get it on a spiked shield and it goes to 2d6.
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I'm personally inclined to believe that since bashing affects the damage die of the weapon you would apply either the bonus from bashing, or use your warpriest damage die. Whichever was better.
Even if you were to change the size first then the base damage it would still end up the same. Sacred weapon has a different chart for different size categories. Since large is considered 1d8 then that means huge would be 2d6...which is the table you would take from. Add on Righteous Might, Lead blades, shield spikes, and a few levels and you can become a very devastating beast. Throw in the shield master tree and you have a very disturbing setup.
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My Warpriest currently has a +1 Bashing Klar, which at level 6 translates to 3d6 damage.
1d8 (base) => 2d6 (up 1 size) => 3d6 (up 2 sizes)
Which, funny enough, is more damage than the Earthbreaker he wields in his other hand. In addition, with Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and a BAB of only +4, he gets more attacks with the Klar, too.
When he drinks a potion of Enlarge Person and turns his weapons Vicious for a couple rounds his damage output is obscene.
The one caveat to this is that Mark Seifter mentioned a while back that the Design Team was working on an FAQ for resolving damage dice increases, so it's entirely possible this whole discussion could be turned upside down in the next couple months.
Even if you were to change the size first then the base damage it would still end up the same. Sacred weapon has a different chart for different size categories. Since large is considered 1d8 then that means huge would be 2d6...which is the table you would take from. Add on Righteous Might, Lead blades, shield spikes, and a few levels and you can become a very devastating beast. Throw in the shield master tree and you have a very disturbing setup.
that chart refers to the size of the warpriest, not the size of the weapon.
Any effect that improves base weapon damage will not affect the sacred weapon damage, as others have said you get to choose one or the other.
My Warpriest currently has a +1 Bashing Klar, which at level 6 translates to 3d6 damage.
1d8 (base) => 2d6 (up 1 size) => 3d6 (up 2 sizes)
Which, funny enough, is more damage than the Earthbreaker he wields in his other hand. In addition, with Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and a BAB of only +4, he gets more attacks with the Klar, too.
When he drinks a potion of Enlarge Person and turns his weapons Vicious for a couple rounds his damage output is obscene.
The one caveat to this is that Mark Seifter mentioned a while back that the Design Team was working on an FAQ for resolving damage dice increases, so it's entirely possible this whole discussion could be turned upside down in the next couple months.
Wow, 6D6 damage... Well since Improved TWF require +6 BaB it's only 1 time per round, exactly the same as any wizard/sorcerer can do with some of their damage spells (but they can do it at a distance), even more, imagine your Warpriest fight a level 6 wizard, while you cast enlarge person he cast Defensive Shock (Ultimate Magic), next round he cast Burning Arc (Humans of Golarion) dealing you 6d6 fire damage (reflex half) and 3d6 fire dmg to one of your friend within 15 feet of you and 1d6 fire damage to a third friend within 15 feet. You move and hit him for 6d6 damage the Defensive Shock trigger dealing you 3d6 electricity dmg (no save) for your first strike then 1d6 electricity damage for your 2nd strike...
Total : youd deal him 8d6+(2xFOR)+Magic enhancement dmg. (2d6+FOR for Earthbreaker, 6d6+FOR for Shield and add the magic +1 or +2 for each weapon if you want...)
You take 11d6 damage in the round (6d6 from burning arc, 4d6 from Defensive shock, 1d6 from you Vicious weapon) and at the same time one f your friend took 3d6 and another 1d6... for 15d6 dmg in one round...
So I would say that warpriest is strong but not owerpowered no ? ;)
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It's actually 17d6 (assuming all 3 attacks hit).
5d6 for the Vicious Earthbreaker
6d6 for the Vicious Klar (x2)
I grabbed Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at 6th level as a bonus feat (despite having only a +4 BAB). This means I can hit once with the Earthbreaker, and twice with the Klar, on a full attack.
Assuming I'm decently buffed (Divine Favor, Strength Blessing) I'm usually around +14/+14/+9 to-hit. Toss on Bull's Strength, Flanking, and miscellaneous +1s, and it becomes a slaughter.
But my comment earlier wasn't meant to compare against Wizards (or anyone else, for that matter). At first I was just confirming the damage dice increase for a Bashing Sacred Weapon. Then I got this thread and another mixed up, where someone was complaining Warpriests sucked, and I wanted to show that they're still just fine.
I grabbed Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at 6th level as a bonus feat (despite having only a +4 BAB). This means I can hit once with the Earthbreaker, and twice with the Klar, on a full attack.
But my comment earlier wasn't meant to compare against Wizards (or anyone else, for that matter). At first I was just confirming the damage dice increase for a Bashing Sacred Weapon. Then I got this thread and another mixed up, where someone was complaining Warpriests sucked, and I wanted to show that they're still just fine.
Maybe you don't know but the bonus feat for Warpriest still need to meet all pre-requisite... So you can cut 1/3 of your damage output for this level, it's still very good and I too think that Warpriest is a very good class, not overpowered nor too feeble, I think it's a very well thought class with good flavor.
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I grabbed Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at 6th level as a bonus feat (despite having only a +4 BAB).Maybe you don't know but the bonus feat for Warpriest still need to meet all pre-requisite.
I do meet all the prerequisites. I'm a 6th level Warpriest with TWF and a 17 Dex. Warpriests use their level in place of their BAB when qualifying for bonus feats.
I do meet all the prerequisites. I'm a 6th level Warpriest with TWF and a 17 Dex. Warpriests use their level in place of their BAB when qualifying for bonus feats.I grabbed Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at 6th level as a bonus feat (despite having only a +4 BAB).Maybe you don't know but the bonus feat for Warpriest still need to meet all pre-requisite.
Oh cool, thanks I'd missed this entry in the class description :)
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I do meet all the prerequisites. I'm a 6th level Warpriest with TWF and a 17 Dex. Warpriests use their level in place of their BAB when qualifying for bonus feats.I grabbed Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at 6th level as a bonus feat (despite having only a +4 BAB).Maybe you don't know but the bonus feat for Warpriest still need to meet all pre-requisite.
I haven't done the math on what you posted to know if you're doing it right or not, but you do you know that the strength blessing doesn't stack with a magic weapon's enhancement bonus, right?
Even if you were to change the size first then the base damage it would still end up the same. Sacred weapon has a different chart for different size categories. Since large is considered 1d8 then that means huge would be 2d6...which is the table you would take from. Add on Righteous Might, Lead blades, shield spikes, and a few levels and you can become a very devastating beast. Throw in the shield master tree and you have a very disturbing setup.that chart refers to the size of the warpriest, not the size of the weapon.
Any effect that improves base weapon damage will not affect the sacred weapon damage, as others have said you get to choose one or the other.
By this logic lead blades does nothing to a monk's unarmed strikes because it changes the size of the weapon not the monk. Do you think that this is a bad analogy to a warpriest's sacred weapon? I think the same rules should apply to both.
Nice necro :P
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Even if you were to change the size first then the base damage it would still end up the same. Sacred weapon has a different chart for different size categories. Since large is considered 1d8 then that means huge would be 2d6...which is the table you would take from. Add on Righteous Might, Lead blades, shield spikes, and a few levels and you can become a very devastating beast. Throw in the shield master tree and you have a very disturbing setup.that chart refers to the size of the warpriest, not the size of the weapon.
Any effect that improves base weapon damage will not affect the sacred weapon damage, as others have said you get to choose one or the other.By this logic lead blades does nothing to a monk's unarmed strikes because it changes the size of the weapon not the monk. Do you think that this is a bad analogy to a warpriest's sacred weapon? I think the same rules should apply to both.
You'd think wrong.
The monks improved unarmed strike doesn't have a clause indicating that you use the weapon damage or the IUS damage. Your IUS is the weapon.Sacred Weapon overlays the weapon damage,you use the better of the 2.
Ah... Someone turn undead thread and put this one back in the ground...
Claxon and the others had it right years ago.
A problem I heard raised by using Lead Blades on your MUS is that Lead Blades works on all the Weapons you carry. Do you carry your fists?Even if you were to change the size first then the base damage it would still end up the same. Sacred weapon has a different chart for different size categories. Since large is considered 1d8 then that means huge would be 2d6...which is the table you would take from. Add on Righteous Might, Lead blades, shield spikes, and a few levels and you can become a very devastating beast. Throw in the shield master tree and you have a very disturbing setup.that chart refers to the size of the warpriest, not the size of the weapon.
Any effect that improves base weapon damage will not affect the sacred weapon damage, as others have said you get to choose one or the other.By this logic lead blades does nothing to a monk's unarmed strikes because it changes the size of the weapon not the monk. Do you think that this is a bad analogy to a warpriest's sacred weapon? I think the same rules should apply to both.
You'd think wrong.
The monks improved unarmed strike doesn't have a clause indicating that you use the weapon damage or the IUS damage. Your IUS is the weapon.Sacred Weapon overlays the weapon damage,you use the better of the 2.
That's a whole 'nother issue, irrelevant to the question asked.
Still, while I can see a way to semantically argue otherwise and it is clearly intended to work with IUS, but strictly RAW probably doesn't. That said I would give any GM who ruled that way a nasty sideways glance.
The dislike for posting in an old thread has been something that really confuses me about these boards. I wanted to make a warpriest using the thunder and fang feat but I didn't know how sacred weapon would affect my damage.
This thread seemed to not only be squarely on topic but also left the question unanswered. Why start a new thread? Just looking to understand.
Digging around a bit, I don't see that this question has come up before.
You may be correct. I'll dig around some more later tonight.
I might check on the dates of this, but Aelrynth and I have been arguing about this on and off for years. The argument dates back to Feral Combat Training and Improved Natural Attack back when FCT let you use your MUSD on your Natural Weapons.
Then the argument carried over Virtual Size Increases, Shield Spikes, the Klar, and Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage.
Did any of this debate happen on the message boards? I would love to read it.
Most of the unanswered questions upthread do not relate to the core question of sacred damage and weapon size increases. It looks like that was well answered repeatedly.
You work out what your weapon damage would be, or you can use your sacred weapon damage. Sacred weapon damage is not affected by effects that increase weapons size. It would be affected by things that increase your physical size.
The Sacred weapon ability isn't a weapon, it is a mystical ability that substitutes for your weapon damage if you want it to.
Monks IUS works entirely differently and is not analogous. Any comparison is misleading and distracting.
Unless there is a different question hidden and I've missed it.
Del_Taco_Eater: Bashing affects the weapons base damage. You have the option of using either the weapon damage [with bashing] OR sacred weapon damage.
"The warpriest can decide to use the weapon’s base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made. (If the weapon’s base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.)"
See the sacred weapon ability doesn't care what size the weapon is, virtual or real, it just replaces the damage with a new dice. So a human use a small [d3], medium[d4] and large dagger[d6] at level 6 but the sacred damage stays at d8. Enlarging that small dagger, say with lead blades, just changes the d3 to a d4 just like you where using a medium dagger and you know what happens with that: The size of the weapon doesn't alter the sacred weapon damage.
the number of clap-backs in these threads Scott posted makes them so fun to read. Hhhehhehe
To be fair I believe the FAQ postdates UABS's post.
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By strict RAW, they do not stack, because of an idiotic line in shield spikes that uses the words "as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you". I reject that shield spikes are actually a virtual size increase, but that is a house rule.
Forum etiquette fun. :) I wasn't trying to call anyone out as such.
It was probably right for you and CLH to point it out for future readers.
Clap-backs?
Clap back means responding to an insult or quip with one of your own.
"if you have multiple size changing effects ...only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases"
NPC codex character stat blocks are not a rules source. A significant number of mistakes creep into NPCs in various sources.