Wait... my level 1 autosucceeds all downtime alchemy crafting?


Pathfinder Society


Is there any information on how the Investigator class ability 'Inspiration' works in conjunction with downtime crafting and day job roll?

An investigator has the ability to augment skill checks and ability checks through his brilliant inspiration. The investigator has an inspiration pool equal to 1/2 his investigator level + his Intelligence bonus, minimum 1. As a free action, he can expend one use of inspiration from his pool to add 1d6 to the result of that check (including any he takes 10 or 20 on). This choice is made after the check is rolled and before the results are revealed. An investigator can only use inspiration once per check or roll.

Does this means I could use this ability on either a day job roll or the craft (alchemy) ability?

If so... then would someone check my logic here?

Example:

Base craft (alchemy) bonus: +9
Crafter's Fortune bonus: +5
Total on a take 10 roll: 24

Total on a take 10 roll with inspiration: 25-30?

"If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress this week. If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again."

Based on the above... wouldn't that mean that given an unlimited amount of time... eventually you would roll a 6 on the 1d6 and succeed at crafting a DC 30 item by having a total on a take 10 roll of 30?

Basically wouldn't that mean that as long as you don't hit the 'fail by 5 or more' ruling, you could calculate the take 10 on craft alchemy checks done during downtime on PFS play as if getting a +6 via inspiration?

Thus... since I'm not aware of any craft (alchemy) DC's above 30... doesn't this mean I can auto succeed any downtime craft (alchemy) checks and simply buy them at their 1/3 crafting cost? At... level 1?

0.0!?

And what about day job checks? Can I use inspiration on a craft (alchemy) check as well? If so, is there any guidelines on how it is use? Simply roll a 1d6 and add the total to the check?

5/5 5/55/55/5

I think technically if the ability isn't always on its not available during downtime.

The Exchange 3/5

For a moment we will go with the assumption that you can use this ability during downtime (though, I'm fairly certain you cannot). Unless your static bonus were +1 higher, it would not be an auto-success when faced with DC 30. If you roll a 1 before you roll a 6 (which will happen 50% of the time), then you will have failed by 5 or more, invoking the rule that you quoted: you lose half of the raw materials and must start again. And if you continue to roll 1s before a 6, you continue to destroy half of the remaining raw materials each time. (First you lose 1/2, then 1/4, then 1/8, then 1/16, etc.)

Mathematically, the expected cost would be 4/9 the listed price of the item (44.44%). The least you would pay would be 1/3 the cost of the item (33.33%). The upper bound on how much you would pay if you are quite unlucky and roll 1s repeatedly without rolling a 6 is 2/3 the cost of the item (66.67%).


Ah... you're right, it would not be an auto-success when facing a DC of 30 because that would only give me a static 25 on craft alchemical which would invoke the failed by 5 or more rule.

Technically changing my stats to STR 14 | DEX 12 | CON 11 | INT 20 | WIS 9 | CHA 7 would grant me the extra static +1 modifier needed at level one but that would be pointless as I don't have the money at level one to really craft that much anyways.

Yet that would mean that auto success would simply be delayed to level 2.

I'm confident inspiration will work on a day job roll.

Expanded Inspiration (Ex)- An investigator can use his inspiration Diplomacy, Perception, Profession, and Sense Motive checks without expending uses of inspiration, provided he's trained in the skill."

Although I see no problem when the skill used on a day job roll is one such as above, I still question whether or not I could use inspiration on a day job roll for a skill that still required expending uses of inspiration (such as the above prior to investing in this talent).

I see nothing wrong with using inspiration on a craft check since it is a skill/ability check that I can take a 10 on.

4/5 5/5 **

Inspiration, because it is not a permanent effect and has an extremely limited number of times per day it can be used, is NOT usable on Day Job checks, any more than you can use Guidance on Day Job checks. The Day Job check is an abstract compilation of potentially dozens of individual crafting checks as you make and then sell items in your down time. If it's not an all-day-long duration modifier, like Crafter's Fortune, you can't modify your Day Job check with it. However, if you just wanted to make a single alchemical item for yourself then I would allow inspiration on that one die roll.

This is all very clearly spelled out on page 21 of the Guide to PFS Organized Play:

GtPFSOP wrote:

Permanent bonuses from equipment, feats, racial bonuses, and traits affect your Day Job check as they would any check for the rolled skill, but temporary bonuses such as those granted by spell effects, other than crafter’s fortune, do not contribute, as the duration over which the Day Job check is made is undefined and represents a longer amount of time than a spell’s duration would permit the bonus to remain. You may take 10 on a Day Job check, but you may not take 20 nor can you aid another.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Dan Simons wrote:

Inspiration, because it is not a permanent effect and has an extremely limited number of times per day it can be used, is NOT usable on Day Job checks, any more than you can use Guidance on Day Job checks. The Day Job check is an abstract compilation of potentially dozens of individual crafting checks as you make and then sell items in your down time. If it's not an all-day-long duration modifier, like Crafter's Fortune, you can't modify your Day Job check with it. However, if you just wanted to make a single alchemical item for yourself then I would allow inspiration on that one die roll.

This is all very clearly spelled out on page 21 of the Guide to PFS Organized Play:

GtPFSOP wrote:
Permanent bonuses from equipment, feats, racial bonuses, and traits affect your Day Job check as they would any check for the rolled skill, but temporary bonuses such as those granted by spell effects, other than crafter’s fortune, do not contribute, as the duration over which the Day Job check is made is undefined and represents a longer amount of time than a spell’s duration would permit the bonus to remain. You may take 10 on a Day Job check, but you may not take 20 nor can you aid another.

That is correct in the cases where you must expend a use of Inspiration to get the extra D6. As Martain pointed out, there are ways to make Inspiration free for a set of skills. Once it is free to use, it is no longer a limited resource, and it then becomes a valid question whether or not it can be used on a Day Job roll.

An Investigator can, by default, use Inspiration without expending a use on any Knowledge Skill, Linguistics, or Spellcraft provided the Investigator has at least 1 rank in the skill.

Through Investigator Talents, it's possible to additionally get "free" uses of Inspiration on:

Expanded Inspiration: Diplomacy, Heal, Perception, Profession skills, Sense Motive

Underworld Inspiration: Bluff, Disable Device, Disguise, Intimidate, and Sleight of Hand

Profession skills, Spellcraft, Heal, Intimidate, Bluff, Sleight of Hand, and I think Diplomacy can all be Day Job rolls (EDIT: Provided you have the vanity to allow the appropriate skill, except in the case of Professions). If you're able to use Inspiration for free when using one of those skills, it would seem to be an always on bonus, and my opinion is it should apply.

Unlike Guidance, which has a standard action casting time and a limited duration, once Inspiration is free to use, it can be applied to every roll of the skill as a free action (limited only by the number of free actions the GM allows) even after the D20 has been rolled for the skill.

I don't, however, see a way to get Inspiration uses for free on a Craft Skill (I might be missing it), so I don't think you can apply it to a Craft: Alchemy roll between scenarios for crafting or for a Day Job.

Now, that being said, without something from the PFS campaign, it's going to be a table variation issue based on how the GM interprets the FAQ and the Day Job rules (as a lot of other things are right now), and I wouldn't expect a clarification from the campaign until after the ACG is released, because the Inspiration rules might be completely different when that happens.

1/5

Ferious Thune wrote:

An Investigator can, by default, use Inspiration without expending a use on any Knowledge Skill, Linguistics, or Spellcraft provided the Investigator has at least 1 rank in the skill.

Through Investigator Talents, it's possible to additionally get "free" uses of Inspiration on:

Expanded Inspiration: Diplomacy, Heal, Perception, Profession skills, Sense Motive

Underworld Inspiration: Bluff, Disable Device, Disguise, Intimidate, and Sleight of Hand

Profession...

What's funny is that an Investigator can't use a free inspiration on Craft (alchemy). I mean, he can be freely inspired on his Knowledge Nobility roll by putting 1 rank into it, but he can't be so inspired in his use of Alchemy, no matter what he does. Despite the fact that the Investigator is better at Alchemy than at Knowledge History.

This is why I scoff at the notion of arguing about realism in the game.

Grand Lodge 4/5

N N 959 wrote:
Ferious Thune wrote:

An Investigator can, by default, use Inspiration without expending a use on any Knowledge Skill, Linguistics, or Spellcraft provided the Investigator has at least 1 rank in the skill.

Through Investigator Talents, it's possible to additionally get "free" uses of Inspiration on:

Expanded Inspiration: Diplomacy, Heal, Perception, Profession skills, Sense Motive

Underworld Inspiration: Bluff, Disable Device, Disguise, Intimidate, and Sleight of Hand

Profession...

What's funny is that an Investigator can't use a free inspiration on Craft (alchemy). I mean, he can be freely inspired on his Knowledge Nobility roll by putting 1 rank into it, but he can't be so inspired in his use of Alchemy, no matter what he does. Despite the fact that the Investigator is better at Alchemy than at Knowledge History.

This is why I scoff at the notion of arguing about realism in the game.

Realism? Ina game where you can put on a pair of cheap (1,000 gp) boots, and never take more than 20 points of damage, no matter how far you fall? And still land on your feet, to boot.


Ferious Thune wrote:
I don't, however, see a way to get Inspiration uses for free on a Craft Skill (I might be missing it), so I don't think you can apply it to a Craft: Alchemy roll between scenarios for crafting or for a Day Job.

Example 1: Craft ThunderStone DC 25

Week 1: Take 10 roll: 10
Alchemy Competence Bonus: 1
Intelligence Modifier : 4
Crafter's Fortune Modifier : 5 (via expend of extract)
1 Skill Point in Craft skill : 1
Bonus from being class skill : 3

Dan Simons wrote:
However, if you just wanted to make a single alchemical item for yourself then I would allow inspiration on that one die roll.

Total Roll = 24 + 1 (via expend of inspiration 1d6 with minimum +1)

Roll meet exceed DC: Yes
25*25>= 300? : Yes
Result : Congratulations! You've crafted a ThunderStone!

Day Progress Alternative:
Progress by the Day: You can make checks by the day instead
of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC)
should be divided by the number of days in a week.
- would take only 4 days if progress via day method used

Given infinite time, if I could do the above for one item then I simply repeat over and over again. Hence statement of auto succeed so long as time to craft is infinite

Example 2: Craft ThunderStone DC 25
Day 1/Week 1
Take 10 result w/o Inspiration: 20
with Inspiration: 21 (via rolling minimum)
Result met DC? : No
Result failed by 5 or more? : No
Result for day/week : No progress
Day 2/Week 2
Take 10 result w/o Inspiration: 20
with Inspiration: 25 (via rolling 5 or above)
Result met DC? : Yes
...
Final Result - Congratulations! You've crafted a ThunderStone!

Thus Inspiration would allow an Investigator to always eventually succeed on a DC of 5 more than he otherwise could do.

Given unlimited/infinite time between adventures in PFS... Investigator's Inspiration in essence allows them to take 15 on a craft (alchemy) check.

Ferious Thune wrote:
That is correct in the cases where you must expend a use of Inspiration to get the extra D6. As Martain pointed out, there are ways to make Inspiration free for a set of skills. Once it is free to use, it is no longer a limited resource, and it then becomes a valid question whether or not it can be used on a Day Job roll.

Exactly!

Ferious Thune wrote:
Now, that being said, without something from the PFS campaign, it's going to be a table variation issue based on how the GM interprets the FAQ and the Day Job rules (as a lot of other things are right now), and I wouldn't expect a clarification from the campaign until after the ACG is released, because the Inspiration rules might be completely different when that happens.

True true. I for one am looking forward to such and the feats I expect will come with them (such as extra investigator talents)

Scarab Sages 4/5

It's worth also pointing out that an Investigator using Craft Alchemy to craft mundane items (EDIT: In PFS) is something that is also open to table variance, since right now only Alchemists are called out as able to craft alchemical items, and Paizo (the developers) have yet to make a determination as to whether the ACG classes count as their alternate classes. It's another area where PFS is unlikely to make a ruling for the campaign until the ACG is released. This issue applies to a lot more than just Investigators and crafting, like Investigators and purchasing poisons, or Warpriests and qualifying for Fighter feats, or Bloodragers and what Bloodline they can have if they intend to go Dragon Disciple.

I'm still of the opinion that you can't spend uses of a finite ability between scenarios, just like you can't spend used of a wand (of Crafter's Fortune, for instance), but I know both those issues are going to be up for table variance.

I have an Investigator, and I'm avoiding these issues because I don't want to run into table variance, so I'm just not crafting or using poisons for now. It's still a fun class to play.

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