Your open stance invites opponents to attack you, and like a linnorm’s Death Curse, your retributive strikes punish those foolish enough to accept the invitation.
Prerequisite(s): Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +3 or monk level 3rd.
Benefit(s): While using this style, you take a –2 penalty to your AC against melee attacks. After a creature makes a melee attack against you, you can choose to add your Wisdom bonus to the damage from your unarmed strikes against that creature, rather than your Strength bonus. If you can normally add your Dexterity bonus to the attack’s damage, you can instead replace it with your Wisdom bonus. This lasts until the beginning of the target creature’s next turn.
Instead of Boar Style + Weapon Finesse + Weapon Focus + Slashing Grace... which brings up questions as to what happens when you want to do blunt damage instead (wouldn't that mean you'd loose slashing grace?)...
One can take Linnorm Style instead. Not for everyone since not everyone is willing to be hit first before hitting back but... since I'm going to be using the Monk's Oath -
Peace:
Restriction: The monk must strive to attain peace and may only use violence as a last resort. He can never strike the first blow in combat. If attacked, he must use the fight defensively action or the total defense action for the first 2 rounds. He must always give his opponent the option to surrender, and cannot purposely slay another creature that could reasonably be influenced to flee or join a civilized society as a productive member (obviously this excludes many monsters). Many monks who have taken this vow learn how to grapple and pin opponents, tying them with specialized knots that allow them to work themselves free after sufficient effort. Many monks of peace are vegetarians.
Benefit: A monk with this vow increases his ki pool by 1 ki point for every 5 monk levels (minimum +1).
in the first place... they do dovetail into each other quite well.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore you can use weapon finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike.
Boar Style: You can deal blugeoning damage or slashing damage with unarmed strikes - changing damage type is a free action.
Slashing Grace: Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.
Wouldn't this mean that a combination of the feats: Boar Style + Weapon Finesse + Weapon Focus [Unarmed strike] would enable a Slashing Grace [Unarmed Strike] to where now my Dexterity modifier applies to both my attack and my damage rolls?
Am I recreating the wheel here on the monk in that there's an easier way to get unarmed strikes to use Dex for attack roll instead of Str?
So there's an interesting Monk archetype called Monk of Many styles that can combine multiple stances at once.
I'm curious how this works in conjunction with the elemental styles of Djinni/Efreeti/Marid/Shaitan.
Djinni Style:
Benefit: ... While you are in this style you must use Elemental Fist to deal electricity damage and you gain a bonus on electricity damage rolls equal to your wisdom bonus. ...
Efreeti Style:
Benefit: ... While using this style and Elemental fist to deal fire damage, you gain a bonus on fire damage rolls equal to your Wisdom bonus. ...
Marid Style:
Benefit: ... While using this style and Elemental Fist to deal cold damage, you gain a bonus on cold damage rolls equal to your Wisdom modifier...
Shaitan Style:
Benefit: ... While using Shaitan Style and Elemental Fist feats to deal acid damage, you gain a bonus on acid damage rolls equal to your Wisdom bonus. ...
Where as the Archetype indicates it allows you to fuse various styles into one greater whole... the wording on the above makes it sound like you can only choose the earth element.
If we say that it allows you to simply transition from one elemental type to another... isn't that largely the same as doing without the archetype and simply having the style feats and entering which ever one is relevant to your situation?
What do you guys think... how do these styles combine under this archetype for the elemental styles and what about their progressive style feats such as Djinn Spin/Efreeti Touch/Marid Coldsnap/Shaitan Earthblast?
Does spell resistance from multiple sources stack?
For example, if I had a character sheet for an Asimar from when they were still allowed (I understand they're not anymore) with Celestial Resistance who was a monk who at level 13 gained Diamond Soul... would the two stack?
__________________________
Exalted Reistance
An assimar with this racial trait grants spell resistance equal to 5 + her level against spells and spell-like abilities with the evil descriptor, as well as any spells and spell-like abilities cast by evil outsiders. This racial trait replaces celestial resistance - Advanced Race Guide
___________________________
Diamond Soul
At 13th level, a monk gains spell resistance equal to his current monk level + 10. In order to affect the monk with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the monk's spell resistance.
If you need any further help, I'm a regular player at the Provo PFS games.
Also, I too am looking for a home brew game. Personally I'd like something with greater emphasis on role play and good versus evil morality and less on murder hobo tactics.
Have you attended any PFS games here in Provo yet?
1. Understood but worth looking into in case they would stack
2. Then I'm not sure how the ability under Blade Adept Arcanist works
3. True but if you're dipping into wizard for admixture anyways... this might be a better pick.
Also, under the bodyguard build, was there a reason you didn't add in Helpful (halfling) trait that can be gained via the adopted (social) trait? It would change your base aid another to a 4.
Hero Lab treats the two as the same at least in that 1 lvl arcanist and 2 levels magus opens up the black blade as if I had taken 3 levels straight magus.
Plus... the Blade Adept archetype gives you sword bond... which if I'm reading it right... lets you enchant your black blade as if it were a wizards arcane bond item. will let you use your black blade as if it were a wizards focus...
+1 damage to evocation spells via intense spells via admixture subschool is nice too.
I was looking over the Arcanist class and I had some questions. Would it merge well with Magus?
If so, rather than a dip as a wizard for the admixture school, you could pick such up via arcanist exploit but get the benefits of being an arcanist.
Would the blade adept archetype stack with the blade bound archetype to mean that you get full progression on black blade despite the dip?
Would arcane reservoir to increase the level of shocking grasp stack when cast through spell strike/combat? If so then it's a pretty easy way to add an extra 1d6 damage. It would also open up quite a few pretty cool exploits (Spell Tinkerer, Quick Study, Potent Magic) that might work well with a magus.
Also, I don't know if you mentioned or considered it but... a cracked opalescent white pyramid Ioun stone (1500gp) will let you treat any weapon (one specific of your choice) as a martial weapon. Since a Magus is proficient with ALL martial weapons... this would be a very easy way to pick up your reach weapon over a two level Barbarian Titan Mauler dip.
Is there anywhere one could see a more comprehensive list of what Boons have been given out over the years and what they do?
Otherwise, although I don't have anything to trade, I'd love a Prosperity Boon. Can boons be bought/sold for real money? Anyone selling?
As was stated in the "boon trading for non-boons" thread a couple of months ago, it is frowned upon to sell boons.
Also Mike Brock's response is here. As far as a list there is a link in the thread somewhere.
I looked through that thread but couldn't find a link to a thread regarding what the boons are and what they do (how else would you know what you'd want to trade for?).
While situational, level 2 spell bullet ward would help against enemies with guns to grant +10 AC 4 times.
Regarding area effects attacks...
What about worship Aspu and take the Divine Barrier feat to negate area effects that deal acid/cold/electricity/fire upon a successful save and half upon fail to all allies within 30 feat (use one channel usage).
Items:
Headband of Alluring Charisma +4
Bracers of the Merciful Knight
Feats:
Radiant Charge
Extra Lay on Hands
Extra Lay on Hands
Extra Lay on Hands
Tower Shield (Crusader Archetype)
Lay On Hands Healing: 6d6 19 times per day
Channel Energy Cleric: 1d6 10 times per day
Channel Energy Paladin (Hospitalier): 3d6 10 times per day.
Radiant Charge: 19d6 +7 Holy (Not subject to damage reduction, energy immunities or energy resistance)
Holy Evil Outsider Great Sword: 6d6
Smite Evil x 2: +7 to hit, +9/+18 to damage, +7 deflection bonus
Divine Bond Weapon x 2 (9 minutes): Add on some nice damage modifiers
Capacity to recharge Radiant Charge: 40 recharge capacity in a day.
+3 Mithral Full Place of Comfort
+4 Tower Shield
________________
32 AC -9 ACP
This would still leave 2 feats open for customization. Possibilities:
Feats:
No Cover Charge!: Shield Focus + Covering Defense + 3 Acrobatics
Full Defense (Standard Action) - No AoO
+6 AC dodge bonus self / +9 AC cover bonus allies adjacent
Over My Dead Body!: Bodyguard + Combat Reflexes + Benevolent + Helpful + Ring of Tactical Precision
3 AoO to grant +8 AC to ally (could go higher).
Quicken Channel + Reactive Healing = The Phoenix!
If you don't take Warrior of the Holy Light, by this point you have 4 Lvl 1 spells that heal for 6d6 that you can spam to come back up should things get really bad instead of this. I'd rather spare the feats and keep the spell casting with pearls of power (1k each) to increase the number of times I can go phoenix (which shouldn't happen often if you're staying on top of things).
Greater Mercy + Ultimate Mercy = Raise the Dead!
If you're going to play a defensive tank Paladin, especially in PFS where raise the dead is exorbitant, why not be able to raise the dead for a temporary -1 level? Oh, plus 1d6 to lay on hands healing too.
Even at level 10 I see the above build being quite powerful. If you add in Warrior of the Holy Light, you loose the spell casting but gain 2 more lay on hands. Especially in PFS where you cap at 11, I see this as a strong option.
For the writer of the OP they would take the Sacred Shield which would change the capacity to restore Lay on Hands to 20 outside of any other characters with channel energy pools to contribute.
You'd also loose your smite evils but in exchange you'd gain the ability to grant adjacent allies a +9 shield bonus (+12 with +5 shield and teamwork feat paired with ring of tactical precision). This bonus would stack with either the cover bonus or the aid bonus from above.
You'd still be able to go full radiant at least once a day for when the party had particular difficulty with a big bad boss dude and still have plenty of lay on hands for self healing and the above shield ability.
Granting everyone around you 18 AC (9 Shield/9 Cover) that can go to 10/10 is quite nice. Since it is a standard action, you can still move around to defend and when a big smite is needed, simply go radiant to finish the fight.
Or go the bodyguard route with the Shield wall Teamwork feat. Pass around some rings of tactical precision (or make them by their own)
Once you get your Armor/Shield Enhancement bonus upto +5...
+11 AC AoO aid another and +12 AC via Holy Shield
Now what would really be fun in my opinion is to pair a Hospitaler and a Sacred Shield Paladin. The first would be offensive the second defensive.
Note, divine defender would stack with the Sacred Shield to grant an extra 2 sacred AC/Saves instead of having mercies as another option
Note Oath against Fiends grants you option of using divine bond on weapon/armor/shield instead of just one.
Note:
Oath Against Fiends, Divine Defender, Sacred Shield, Warrior of Holy Light are compatible with one another as far as I can tell.
The two would play off each other and feed one another. Between the two of them... they could solo many scenarios.
Yes, the meditation crystals come from Adventurer's Armory and are under the category called Channel Foci items. They require you to put a channel energy into them in order to make them functon.
Two other channel foci that are awesome are the authoritative vestments for a swift action diplomacy check to change alignment of all within 60 feet of you who can see you and the 'Just Scale' which lets you do the same thing but on a smaller scale [pun intended].
Possible thoughts on how to better make a Tower Shield/Sacred Shield Paladin
Lay on Hands: The Reload Approach
Take a cleric level dip to gain a separate channel pool. Day before adventure store pool into Meditation Crystals (100 gp each, reusable). Next day replenish your lay on hand charges.
EX: +5 CHA = 9 channel energy. Start the day with capacity for 18 lay on hand refills.
Tower Shield Feat: The Feat Tax approach
If you're taking a cleric dip, take the cleric Crusader archetype to gain Tower Shield proficiency for free. The cool dip into the channel pool just got better!
Lay on Hands Self: Be the Phoenix - Lesser
Use the Lvl 1 spell Hero's defiance. Add a few pearls of power and even if you do go down, you're coming right back up. Because it's an immediate spell whose only component is verbal, it doesn't matter whether your hand is free. Add in Bracers of the Merciful Knight w/wo Fey Foundling or Greater Mercy feats and soon you'll be doing better than a breath of life spell!
Lay on Hands Self: Be the Phoenix - Greater
Take the Quick Channel + Reactive Healing feats and call yourself a phoenix! Benefits from the same item/feats above.
How to overcome the loss of Smite Evil ability
Radiant Charge: Bye Bye Baddie Approach
While normally a trap, with a separate channel pool from the above and the ability to reload your lay on hands usage throughout the day, you can now use Radiant Charge to unleash a torrent of damage when things get tough.
Ex: Human Clr 1/Pal 5 with +6 CHA
Radiant Charge: 10d6 +6 Holy Damage
This still leaves 3 feats to use elsewhere. Possible usages would be for extra lay on hands or channel energy feats. One would increase the base damage of the charge, the other would increase your recharge capacity.
Ex: Extra Channel Feat x 2 = 4 Lay on Hand recharge. Adding this to the above and you'd have 26 reloads.
Have a cleric friend with channel energy? The party just got better!
How to overcome inability to use lay on hands on self when holding tower shield.
Gauntlets: The Facepalm Approach
Enchant your gauntlets to be your weapon of choice. Now you got a free hand for lay on hands. (you could get a Ioun stone (deep red sphere 8000 GP) and put it in a wayfinder (250 gp PFS) to gain improved unarmed combat feat but such wouldn't be needed with a gauntlet)
Armor Spikes: The Shoulder Approach
Add magical enchanted armor spikes to your armor and you now have a light melee weapon that can be used while still keeping one hand free.
Weapon Cord: The Handy Approach
Drop your weapon (free action) then heal (swift action). Next turn pick your weapon back up as a swift and away you go.
How to negate evil outsider's teleportation capacities later on.
Oath against Fiends: The None Shall Pass Approach
20 ft aura at level 8 to basically negate outsider teleportation capabilities. Archetype is compatible with Sacred Shield archetype.
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I have a rules question regarding the level requirements of the investigator talents gained through the Psychic Searcher Oracle archetype.
Psychic Talent (Su):
At 3rd level, a psychic searcher’s mastery of her supernatural insight grows, granting her a new investigator talent from the following list: amazing inspiration, eidetic recollection, empathy, inspired alertness, item lore, perceptive tracking (except using Sense Motive instead of Perception or Survival), rogue talent (only for hard to fool APG), and tenacious inspiration. Whenever a psychic searcher can select a new revelation, she can instead select an investigator or rogue talent from the above list. This ability replaces the revelation gained at 3rd level.
My understanding regarding the RAW of this ability is that at level 3 I can take any talent from that list. I expect that RAI would have been to word it similar to:
Alchemist Discovery (Ex):
The investigator can select one of the following alchemist discoveries as an investigator talent: combine extracts, concentrate poison, dilution, elixir of life, enhance potion, eternal potion, extend potion, infusion, mutagenUM, and poison conversionUC. When selecting an alchemist discovery, he must be high enough level to qualify for that discovery, using his investigator level as his alchemist level to determine if he qualifies. This talent can be selected multiple times; each time grants a new alchemist discovery.
The previous ability in the Psychic Searcher archetype indicates:
Inspiration (Ex):
At 2nd level, a psychic searcher gains an inspiration pool, as the investigator class ability. A psychic searcher uses her oracle level as her investigator level to determine the effects of this ability.
So we have an issue between what RAW indicates and what I expect are the RAI. The only place it indicates to use your oracle level as your investigator is under "Inspiration" and not under "Psychic Talent".
Thus either you can take any of the talents from the list when ever you could take a new revelation (hello feat extra revelation!) or you can never take any of the talents with a level requirement unless you multiclass Investigator class levels in order to meet the talent level requirements.
Well, if I were the gm, I'd have your enemies pause for a conversation, then apologise for having to kill you.
There's not much I can do when a GM simply want's to GM Fiat a skill out of Pathfinder that they find inconvenient.
If Paizo wanted or wants to remove the option of ending conflict via diplomacy then all they need to do is indicate:
Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future [GM Determined].
Otherwise I can't see any reason why what I'm attempting wouldn't work per the rules. If it can't be used like this, then every encounter must end in bloodshed, which clearly isn't intended.
Other than people not wanting it to work either because it ends an encounter too quickly, because it puts them on the spot to actually have to converse and role play, or because leads the scenario in a direction they weren't expecting or planning it to go, am I missing something in the rules that would prevent my intent?
Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future.
Enemies that already intend you harm can't be swayed very well.That line is more than just because it takes time to try to change their attitude.
Yet we also have diplomacy stating:
Quote:
You can use this skill to persuade others to agree with your arguments, to resolve differences, and to gather valuable information or rumors from people. This skill is also used to negotiate conflicts by using the proper etiquette and manners suitable to the problem.
Definition of generally ineffective: In general terms; without regard to pariculars or exceptions, in most cases, usually, diplomacy during combat does not producing any significant or desired effect.
I understand your opinion that the difficulty in battle is more than length of time but why would your opinion be any more valid than mine?
They didn't say you couldn't use it, that it can't work but that it's 'generally ineffective'. Since they don't expand upon the when or indicate that the 'generally ineffective' is GM Determined, then you should be able to make the skill check and let your skill do the talking.
Claxon wrote:
Legitimately I wouldn't expect this tactic to work anywhere, including PFS. If enemies are about to attack nothing short of magic will get them to stop.
Legitimately? Why legitimately? It doesn't indicate that it's GM Interpretation as to when I can or can not use Diplomacy. It simply states that it's generally ineffective and with the equivalent of a 10 round caster time for a one time attempt that you can't try again for 24 hours? That's pretty generally ineffective.
Claxon wrote:
you also can't change creatures disposition towards you more than two steps. At best you could turn hostile people indifferent.
Regarding changing creatures disposition towards you more than two steps there are at least 2 ways to get around that limitation.
Human Racial Trait - Silver Tongued:
Human are often adept at subtle manipulation and putting even sworn foes at ease. Humans with this trait gain a +2 bonus on Diplomacy and Bluff checks. In addition, when they use Diplomacy to shift a creature's attitude, they can shift up to three steps up rather than just two. This racial trait replaces skilled.
Magical Item - Cloak of the Diplomat:
The forest-green cloak grants a +5 competence bonus on Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks. In addition, once per day, before making a Diplomacy or Sense Motive check, the wearer can decide to call upon the powers of the cloak to roll twice and take the better result. Finally, the wearer of this cloak can adjust a creature’s attitude up to three steps when using Diplomacy, instead of the normal limit of two steps. However, the cloak’s power does have one drawback. Should the wearer ever fail a Diplomacy checks made to adjust a creature’s attitude by 5 or more, the creature’s attitude is reduced by two steps instead of one.
So... I don't like killing and I try to role play my character the way I would act.
I would love to be able to use diplomacy to change someone's attitude during combat from hostile to friendly/helpful except such a skill check normally takes a minute (ten rounds) of continuous conversation.
During combat, generally by the time you could actually make the skill check the enemy or you are dead or you've been interrupted to where you'd have to start over. You also can't take 10 on a skill roll when in battle and your party probably isn't going to be that happy with you if you're not contributing ever to the battles.
Hence, diplomacy is generally not effective in battle.
Suppose though... you did spend the 10 rounds needed to do a diplomacy check. Suppose you then succeeded in changing them from hostile to friendly due to a perfect roll combined with a really high diplomacy modifier.
What then? How would this work in PFS Organized play? What would it mean? What could I do?
The reason I ask is this item
Authoritative Vestments:
Typically worn by senior members of a faith, these cumbersome but splendidly ornate garments create an aura of dignity and gravitas that few dare to challenge. When activated, the garments make you seem more impressive and worthy of respect to all viewers within 60 feet of you; you may make a single Diplomacy check to change the attitudes of these viewers as a swift action. You can only use this ability on a particular viewer once per day (additional attempts have no effect, though you can still persuade viewers normally without the help of the focus).
which are PFS legal.
If I understand this item right, this opens up... battle diplomacy! I like the idea of battle diplomacy! Basically the way I see this is that I've found a way to duplicate the effects of a Charm spell without actually using mental compulsion (which I personally view as morally and ethically wrong).
Attitude change via:
Diplomacy: Any attitude shift caused through Diplomacy generally lasts for 1d4 hours but can last much longer or shorter depending upon the situation (GM discretion).
Charm: Duration 1 hour/level
If charm is legal for pathfinder society play, then why shouldn't I be able to use battle diplomacy to accomplish the same goal? Thoughts?
If it takes a bluff check to deceive someone, what does it take to convince someone that something I say is true?
Example:
Me: I shout, "I sincerely strive to be fair, honest and merciful and if you surrender I promise to offer you mercy. I have no desire to kill you so please throw down your weapons and surrender for there is no reason you need die today."
Me: Does he believe me?
Would you agree that the most common response from a GM would not be that "Yes he is utterly convinced that you are speaking the truth."?
Yes I would love it if they thew down their weapons and surrendered but I know that isn't going to happen. My concern is not so much what they do with the information but that they know such an option is available.
While this hasn't specifically come up in play yet, I'm wondering how to accomplish what I'm seeking.
Now technically I could do the following:
Me: I shout, "I hate you and want to kill you, bring you back to life and kill you again, steal all your possessions, mince your dead corpse with my little pinky finger into a thousand pieces and even if you surrendered now I would absolutely refuse to accept your surrender or offer you any mercy. I'm just vicious and evil like that."
Me: Since what I just shouted was completely 100% opposite of the truth, I'll need to roll for a bluff check and... what do you know but I have a -2 in bluff and I just rolled a 5... looks like I just failed my bluff check and they know how I really feel and what I would really do. Shame shame...
But that seems a bit silly. Anyone with more experience in pathfinder aware of an easier way to convince someone what I'm saying is true? Outside of a 1 minute diplomacy skill check which is generally completely unusable or not allowed during combat? While a bit contrived, intentionally trying to fail a bluff check is a feasible option that only requires a 1 round action.
The Cavalier Order of the Blue Rose states:
Challenge: Whenever an order of the blue rose cavalier issues a challenge, he receives a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls made against the target of his challenge, if the target is an intelligent creature to whom the cavalier offered the chance to surrender (by taking a standard action to offer terms). This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalierpossesses (to a maximum of +5 at 17th level).
So while this indicates it's a standard action to offer terms of surrender, it doesn't do anything regarding confirming that the foe actually believes your offer is real.
I'm hoping to join a home brew campaign soon in which case I can try to have the GM house rule that they always believe me which would be AWESOME and that if not I can present the solution below where I used the rules for bluff as a template but... anyone have any alternate ideas?
DIPLOMACY (Cha)
Persuade: You know how to tell the truth in a convincing manner.
Check: Persuade is an opposed skill check against your opponent's Sense Motive skill. If you use persuade to tell the truth, with a successful check your opponent can sense your honesty and is convinced you're telling the truth or at least that you believe you are. Persuade checks are modified depending upon the believability of the truth.
Circumstances Persuade Modifier
The target wants to believe you +5
The truth is believable +0
The truth is unlikely –5
The truth is far-fetched –10
The truth is impossible –20
The target is drunk or impaired +5
You possess convincing proof up to +10
Action: Attempting to persuade someone takes at least 1 round, but can possibly take longer if the truth is complex (as determined by the GM on a case-by-case basis).
Try Again: If you fail to convince someone, further attempts to convince them are at a -10 penalty and may require convincing proof (GM discretion).
By the way, the quoted items from Ravingdork and Matthew Winn are not related to my GM but simply to me research the matter to try to understand how to do things better.
I'm fully confident that I'm now well informed enough that my GM and I won't have issues with this in the future. ^_^ I think it was mostly miscommunication mixed with my ignorance and him not remembering or even really knowing that this was my... second pathfinder session and that I'm technically a really green greenie.
I think that you as the player should wait for the GM to announce which skill needs to rolled for instead of blurting out "I want to use my dungeoneering check to see what kind of mushroom this is" :) Just a thought
True true! I won't do that anymore! Yet the only reason I had done so was because I had been told previously when trying to identify monsters that I needed to indicate which knowledge skill I needed to use.
Now I know better and will simply ask, I want to check to see what kind of mushroom this is. What knowledge checks to do you want me to roll? Or simply ask how my GM does knowledge checks ahead of time.
Thanks for your guys thoughts on the smelly room of horrendous odors =).
Those are very valid possible answers. A gust of wind from somewhere could have after all caused the smell to billow out over our single file slow walking group all at the same time or caused it to billow the other way to where it wasn't until almost all of us were in the room itself that we noticed the stench.
I'm more likely going to rule that it might not be so fun for a GM if the players never get hit by ANYTHING and temporary nausea in a non combat situation is mild and that most likely it was just that he hadn't thought of it in such a way. I'm not perfect and I don't expect my GM to be either. Had we died from such a thing I would have pressed my point further though.
@anthonydido So you're saying that you're proficient enough in playing poker that he can take a constant take 10 on sense motive check while distracted and that you always wear a headband of +10 sense motive?
That or that he generally plays with individuals with no real points in bluff =D!
For you, it's not so much a question of not actively studying but that you've become so proficient to where it's second nature to pick up those clues similar to a rogue's advanced talent ability skill mastery.
Skill Mastery: The rogue becomes so confident in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions.
Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modif ier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally
prevent her from doing so. A rogue may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for skill mastery to apply to each time.
Or in other words, there are things that you could pick up as a passive sense motive while engaged in diplomatic conversation and things that would require a longer period of time to discern via careful study and observation.
Which would lead me to think that there would be nothing wrong with indicating that I'm rolling sense motive in conjunction with my diplomacy efforts.
@Daengren: Maybe? I don't recall it being that way but memory is far from perfect. I can't remember exactly what happened but I remember wanting to do something and being told I could use sense motive at the time.
I think it was something along the lines of having already used knowledge check on that monster type and having not thought to ask what language it speaks. So here I am trying to determine whether or not the NPC is reacting to anything I'm telling it since all I hear in response from it is unintelligible babbling.
First I wanted to use perception to see if he had reacted any particular way to what I was saying and when success brought nothing... I wanted to use sense motive thinking that that might be better only to be told I couldn't do that.
How does it work when the NPC is lying to me? Do I have to specifically say... I dunno about that... I want to roll for sense motive?
Can I say that I always default to a take 10 on sense motives when able unless I indicate otherwise?
Under take 10/20 rules in core:
Ability Checks and Caster Level Checks: The normal take 10 and take 20 rules apply for ability checks. Neither rule applies to concentration checks or caster level checks.
Knowing what is and isn't a skill check seems simple enough but is there a classification chart as to what is considered an ability check?
Likewise the fungi where in pots being used by mites for somethig (food?) and were continually emitting the stench without any requirements for external stimuli. In this case should I have been able to smell something before full blown BLAM via a default take 10 perception for active awareness when not in immediate danger/distracted?
"Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll(a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help."
Where is the component that indicates it takes a full minute to cover a 5' square? I know take 20 takes a lot more time... but I thought take 10 was just a mechanic to speed up game play and hedge rolls.
So I already discussed knowledge checks on another thread but a similar situation came up with a perception check and sense motive check.
Do I need to role play which sense I'm using when I perform a perception check? Do I need to say I'm both looking and listening and actively smelling the air and testing the temperature with my skin...?
I had a GM who when I asked him why I hadn't heard something I would think I could have heard with the previous perception check respond along the lines of "Oh, you were listening as well?"
Am I penalized for using all 5 senses at once on a perception check that I need to specify which sense I'm using when I'm actively perceiving? Isn't a perception check the sum total of all I perceive when perceiving?
Likewise I told him early on that I default to a take 10 on all perception checks when able unless I specifically indicate otherwise. Yet we walk into a room through a passageway and I become nauseated by the overpowering stench of some horrid fungi due to a failed fort check. So walking down the hallways I failed to notice or smell at all until the very last moment that something HORRID was up ahead?
Although I don't recall this next scenario exactly, something had caused a situation where on my turn I had made a perception check and now wanted a sense motive check to see how they were responding but was told I couldn't do both on the same turn? Is this correct?
Can I only choose Knowledge, Perception or Sense Motive during my turn inside combat?
Since he knows now in advance that I'm a monster knowledge king character type, I hope he'll write something up like the example above. The other characters can then after the battle say something like:
Dwarf: So uh... you said that thing was a mite? What the heck is a mite other than short blue and incredibly ugly?
Me reading/paraphrasing what the GM gave: Do you know that they're so ugly that even goblins mock them for it? They're descendant from... etc.
Others: Whoah! You really know your stuff! Thanks for the warnings back there!
Me feeling very useful: My pleasure!
A level 1 character with +8 in all 6 basic knowledge checks and a +D20+D6 could technically get a 10 but the monsters DC was 12 (possibly 17 if he would consider it rare/uncommon). I offered him a flash card with such things on it before game so he could roll it himself if he wanted to but he rejected my offer multiple times =).
Hopefully he'll agree to such. Then I have to work with him regarding what he actually learns. This is a critical component of my character...
Ravingdork wrote:
It is my opinion that a GM who does not tell me the creature's name, type, subtype, and all abilities associated with its creature type when I succeed at making the minimal DC is screwing me out of (a) valuable skill(s).
Take the land shark for example. If I make a DC 17 check, I know it is a bullete (or land shark), that it is a magical beast (which in itself tells me little more than it eats sleeps and breathes).
Had my check been a 27, I might also have learned it's sensory capabilities and common attack forms.
If I was fighting an undead monster and made the minimum DC, I would expect to learn its name, type, and all the resistances and immunities common to ALL undead. A better roll would go on to tell me about its strengths, weaknesses, and unique abilities.
This attitude primarily stems from my time playing v3.5 (on which Pathfinder is based) where this kind of thing was the norm.
It doesn't make sense to me that it would require a DC 45 (near impossible) check to know that a land shark "leaps on its victims." I imagine some farmers could tell you that much if they'd ever seen it.
Another reason why I require this "minimal" information, is I have had FAR too many GMs jip me out of my many knowledge ranks and 20+ intelligence by telling me blatantly obvious things.
I once rolled a 38 total, only to have a GM tell me that the flying creature breathing fire in front of me was a dragon that could fly and breathe fire.
Whuh!? I can clearly see that it is flying and breathing fire! Tell me something I can't so readily observe!
I can't stand such GMs as that!
I agree! If sinking skill points in knowledge skills isn't going to tell me anything other than what I can already see and what everyone already knows.
Matthew Winn wrote:
Sure, you can trick it out and max it by spreading your skill points among knowledges, being a bard, or taking skill focus. BUT, if you have a player who wants to spend his resources being the Monster Knowledge King, why are you fighting it? Let him play what he wants, let him have his fun, and then when he gets cocky hit him with a unique or otherwise incredibly rare creature.
My thoughts exactly! After all a major component of an Investigator is inspiration.
"An investigator is beyond skilled and knowledgeable-he also possesses keen powers of observation and deduction above and beyond the abilities of others. An investigator typically uses these powers to aid in their investigations, but can use these flashes of inspiration for other situations."
Free 1d6 to all trained knowledge checks? Sounds like a Monster Knowledge King to me! Yet I still want to rollplay and would rather learn about a monster in the field rather than reading the bestiary.
Knowledge gained without a knowledge check:
This squat humanoid stands around 3 feet tall and seems to be nearly all head—an unfortunate circumstance, considering how ugly its puffy blue face is.
Knowledge gained on a DC2 Mite with a knowledge check of 24:
You recognize the creature as a mite and that they are descended from even smaller fey. They are among the most pitiful of cavern dwellers and hideously ugly so much so that even goblins have been known to mock them for their appearances.
You remember that they are particularly fond of spiders, centipedes, cave fishers and a colony usually has a few of these far more dangerous monsters on hand to defend the group.
One common tactic is that when faced with dangerous foes, a mite uses its doom ability to hex a foe during which a mite's eyes bulge hideously open while using this spell-like ability.
You have 3 questions.
Me: What language does it speak?
GM: You recall that it speaks the strange language of undercommon
Me: Whelp, communication is out!
Me: What alignment does it have?
GM: Lawful Evil
Me: Lovely...
Me: Your pick of either Weakness/Damage Reduction/Special abilities?
GM: You recall that they have vermin empathy and are able to control them via such means
Me: Aw come on! Tell me something everyone else doesn't already know! There's a big dumb giant ant in the middle of them heeding their commands... that's like telling me the fire breathing dragon is a dragon breathing fire.
GM: Alright, in your extensive research you recall no reports of any damage resistances.
Me: Thanks!
Me in character: Mite! Ugly! Small Fey! Can't communicate. Evil! No resistances!
That or having everything before the questions on a small card which I get to read. Yet this was a group of all level 1 new players. I don't know a mite from a dendrite and the flavor text would be very welcome.
Please wait while I roll for each knowledge check independently...
Please wait while I roll 6 sets of dice and tell you what each color refers to and their adjusted total...
If they take no time, take no action, and I can attempt all of them, then I will! If that's the case, since I have all the pertinent knowledge skills, why not just have me roll once realizing that I'm going to successfully roll on said pertinent skill.
Why bog down game play with a large amount of knowledge rolling when I already have all the pertinent knowledge skills needed and will be rolling for the appropriate skill.
I'm going to see if my GM will agree to the following:
There are only 6 knowledge skills that relate to creature/monster identification and I'm trained in all of them. Thus I will be rolling on the relevant knowledge checks. I can also use inspiration on trained knowledge skill checks for free (unlimited) to add 1d6 (Advanced Character PlayTest Investigator).
Why waste time economy rolling for each one when you know I will be rolling on the relevant skill?
For simplicity, why not simply say:
Default: When able, my character will always take 10 on knowledge checks he is trained in. My take 10 value is 13 due to inspiration prior to adding the skill bonus.
Combat/Distracted: So long as it is for a knowledge skill he is trained in, roll once for D20 + D6 + Skill Bonus.
? How do you want me to do knowledge checks going forward?
I have a question or two regarding the use of knowledge checks for my character who was trained in and had +8 to the knowledge skills arcana, dungeoneering, local, nature, planes and religion.
While playing tonight I attempted a knowledge check by requesting such and indicating a total of X so long as it fell in any of those categories and asking if my character was able to recall knowing anything regarding them.
My GM advised me that this was not the case and that I couldn't take a shotgun approach to knowledge skill checks and that I needed to specifically indicate which knowledge skill I was using.
Can't I say I study the situation and determine if any of my vast knowledge grants me any insight into the situation? Say that I rack my brains trying to recall if I've ever heard/seen/encountered/read about a creature matching what stands before me?
Do I really need to meta game the bestiary so that I know which knowledge skill to request a check on? Once I train other knowledge skills, will I need to specifically say "Oh I'd like an engineering knowledge check on this one"?
If so it's horrible! How am I supposed to know which knowledge skill to use? Guess? What, is my PC's knowledge compartmentalized in his brain such as that he can only check one mental compartment and wouldn't spend time to look in the others but simply assume "I don't know nothing about this thingy here"?
Can anyone shed some light on this subject and help me find where it would confirm or deny such in regards to how I'm supposed to use knowledge checks?
Is the item limited to only one article of clothing or can it take care of multiple?
Example:
Soldier's uniform -> Hot weather outfit or Fire-resistant boots
versus
Soldier's uniform -> Hot weather outfit + Fire-resistant boots
If it's the first then are you suddenly going speedo if you change your Explorer's outfit to a pair of skis or would such only change the shoes of your Explorer's outfit to ski's without actually changing the rest of our outfit?
If it's the second (which I hope), then does that mean by slipping on these items I can now be dressed in a noble's outfit with accompaning accessorizing jewelry, wig, perfume and sporting mask and fully dressed to blend in with the elite?
Or that I could be wearing a pickpocket's outfit optomized with a pocketed scarf and false jewelry?
What's the scope of it's creation capacity? Is it limited only to actual clothing or does it work to change hats/shoes/belts/scarves/sashes?
Is there a clothing sublist of what this item can change your existing clothing to or is it the entire clothing category?
I'm trying to find a list of what scenarios have Silver Crusade faction missions and specifically faction missions with boons associated with them so as to know which ones to focus on with my Silver Crusade character.
I recognize that Pazio probably doesn't want what the boon itself is bandied about but I can't find anything out there regarding which scenarios actually have Silver Crusade missions w/wo boons.
I don't, however, see a way to get Inspiration uses for free on a Craft Skill (I might be missing it), so I don't think you can apply it to a Craft: Alchemy roll between scenarios for crafting or for a Day Job.
Example 1: Craft ThunderStone DC 25
Week 1: Take 10 roll: 10
Alchemy Competence Bonus: 1
Intelligence Modifier : 4
Crafter's Fortune Modifier : 5 (via expend of extract)
1 Skill Point in Craft skill : 1
Bonus from being class skill : 3
Dan Simons wrote:
However, if you just wanted to make a single alchemical item for yourself then I would allow inspiration on that one die roll.
Total Roll = 24 + 1 (via expend of inspiration 1d6 with minimum +1)
Roll meet exceed DC: Yes
25*25>= 300? : Yes
Result : Congratulations! You've crafted a ThunderStone!
Day Progress Alternative:
Progress by the Day: You can make checks by the day instead
of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC)
should be divided by the number of days in a week. - would take only 4 days if progress via day method used
Given infinite time, if I could do the above for one item then I simply repeat over and over again. Hence statement of auto succeed so long as time to craft is infinite
Example 2: Craft ThunderStone DC 25
Day 1/Week 1
Take 10 result w/o Inspiration: 20
with Inspiration: 21 (via rolling minimum)
Result met DC? : No
Result failed by 5 or more? : No
Result for day/week : No progress
Day 2/Week 2
Take 10 result w/o Inspiration: 20
with Inspiration: 25 (via rolling 5 or above)
Result met DC? : Yes
...
Final Result - Congratulations! You've crafted a ThunderStone!
Thus Inspiration would allow an Investigator to always eventually succeed on a DC of 5 more than he otherwise could do.
Given unlimited/infinite time between adventures in PFS... Investigator's Inspiration in essence allows them to take 15 on a craft (alchemy) check.
Ferious Thune wrote:
That is correct in the cases where you must expend a use of Inspiration to get the extra D6. As Martain pointed out, there are ways to make Inspiration free for a set of skills. Once it is free to use, it is no longer a limited resource, and it then becomes a valid question whether or not it can be used on a Day Job roll.
Exactly!
Ferious Thune wrote:
Now, that being said, without something from the PFS campaign, it's going to be a table variation issue based on how the GM interprets the FAQ and the Day Job rules (as a lot of other things are right now), and I wouldn't expect a clarification from the campaign until after the ACG is released, because the Inspiration rules might be completely different when that happens.
True true. I for one am looking forward to such and the feats I expect will come with them (such as extra investigator talents)
Ah... you're right, it would not be an auto-success when facing a DC of 30 because that would only give me a static 25 on craft alchemical which would invoke the failed by 5 or more rule.
Technically changing my stats to STR 14 | DEX 12 | CON 11 | INT 20 | WIS 9 | CHA 7 would grant me the extra static +1 modifier needed at level one but that would be pointless as I don't have the money at level one to really craft that much anyways.
Yet that would mean that auto success would simply be delayed to level 2.
I'm confident inspiration will work on a day job roll.
Expanded Inspiration (Ex)- An investigator can use his inspiration Diplomacy, Perception, Profession, and Sense Motive checks without expending uses of inspiration, provided he's trained in the skill."
Although I see no problem when the skill used on a day job roll is one such as above, I still question whether or not I could use inspiration on a day job roll for a skill that still required expending uses of inspiration (such as the above prior to investing in this talent).
I see nothing wrong with using inspiration on a craft check since it is a skill/ability check that I can take a 10 on.
Is there any information on how the Investigator class ability 'Inspiration' works in conjunction with downtime crafting and day job roll?
An investigator has the ability to augment skill checks and ability checks through his brilliant inspiration. The investigator has an inspiration pool equal to 1/2 his investigator level + his Intelligence bonus, minimum 1. As a free action, he can expend one use of inspiration from his pool to add 1d6 to the result of that check (including any he takes 10 or 20 on). This choice is made after the check is rolled and before the results are revealed. An investigator can only use inspiration once per check or roll.
Does this means I could use this ability on either a day job roll or the craft (alchemy) ability?
If so... then would someone check my logic here?
Example:
Base craft (alchemy) bonus: +9
Crafter's Fortune bonus: +5
Total on a take 10 roll: 24
Total on a take 10 roll with inspiration: 25-30?
"If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress this week. If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again."
Based on the above... wouldn't that mean that given an unlimited amount of time... eventually you would roll a 6 on the 1d6 and succeed at crafting a DC 30 item by having a total on a take 10 roll of 30?
Basically wouldn't that mean that as long as you don't hit the 'fail by 5 or more' ruling, you could calculate the take 10 on craft alchemy checks done during downtime on PFS play as if getting a +6 via inspiration?
Thus... since I'm not aware of any craft (alchemy) DC's above 30... doesn't this mean I can auto succeed any downtime craft (alchemy) checks and simply buy them at their 1/3 crafting cost? At... level 1?
0.0!?
And what about day job checks? Can I use inspiration on a craft (alchemy) check as well? If so, is there any guidelines on how it is use? Simply roll a 1d6 and add the total to the check?
Thank you everyone for your informative posts! They've helped!
Here's a further followup question regarding Craft (alchemy) though.
So I read how you could craft by the week or by the day with individual rolls which since the time is in essence infinate between scenarios, as long as I have the gold, and I can succeed via a take 10 or via direct rolling in front of the GM, I can make my stuff.
What I'm wondering is this...
The character class 'Investigator' has a class ability called 'Inspiriation' where they can add to their skill checks a 1d6 and later on a 2d6 or even 2d8 at higher levels. Various investigator talents (think rogue talents but for a different class) even allow you to use inspiration on crafting/knowledge checks without expending the use of one of the points from your inspiriation pool (think like ki pool)
So what I'm thinking is this... since the crafters fortune +5 bonus can be used, wouldn't that make it legal to use my 1d6 inspiration skill die as well and add that to my crafting?
If so, would I only get to add a 1 to my take 10 (since a 1d6 will always roll at least a 1)? Could I add a take 3 to make it a take 13 on a craft check?
Basically my question is how I would use my Inspiration class skill on downtime crafting and while we're at it, day roll checks =)
The Star-Stone is what was used to make the City of Absalom in the first place and resides at the center of the city.
I'm referring to the flavor text/history held in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide,
"Aroden himself, Cayden Cailean, Iomedae, and Norgorber all conquered the otherworldly mystery of the stone and gained divine immortality, and
every day hundreds of truth-seekers, visionaries, prophets, and madmen flock to the district with audacious hopes to add their names to that august list."
where it also talks about the first portion of the test requiring you to cross the chasm without using a bridge.
NPC Contact rules are found in the Ultimate Campaign resource
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/campaignSystems/contact s.html#_contacts
NPC Boons are found in the Game Mastery Guide
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mastery/nPCBoons.html
QNew: Is there any way in pathfinder society organized play for a PC to take the test of the star stone or is that something a gm would have to hand craft if someone wanted to do that.
My lvl 1 PC on a take 10 roll would have a 24 on a crafting check.
So this means I could in essence purchase any craftable alchemical item at 1/3 the price so long as my take 10 crafting check meets or exceeds the DC?
Do I need to use the take 10 roll option or could I roll in front of a GM in order to see if I successfully roll so as to craft higher items (at the risk of failing quoted below)
"If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress this week. If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again."
Q1: I'm assuming that NPC Boons and NPC Contact rules are excluded from Pathfinder Society organized play correct?
Q2: PFS Resources indicate various adventure path content legal for PFS play. How does this work though?
Looking through one of the chronicle sheets involved shows a set of tiers starting with 1 and ending with say... 13-15. I thought the max level for PFS characters is 11 or something?
Does this mean an adventure path is designed to take someone from level 1 all the way to level 13/15? Does this mean that playing an adventure path would consume the entire life of one of my characters and thus prevent me from using that character for content outside of that adventure path?
Q3: Outside of allowing others to catch up with you or allowing you to use a character longer, are there any other benefits to using the slow experience path?
Q4: Do Alchemists/Investigators get to take a day roll check in addition to a alchemy crafting check?
Q5: I read how items created using this crafting skill can not be resold or given permanently to others and I understand why they made it this way but what I don't understand is how much time it takes to create these things and how much I can validly create in between sessions. What are the guidelines for how long it takes to craft alchemical items?
Q6: If one is playing the Silver Crusade faction and obtains their special pathfinder, how does one obtain one with multiple Ioun slots?
Q7: Since I currently am unable to attend PFS events locally due to work hours, is there anyone that will start up a few good ranked beginner modules as PbP? I can post 1-2 possibly more Mon-Sat but not on Sun.
And since you state you're available for help in creating a character, what additional guidelines outside of the PFS ruleset would I want to take into consideration when putting forth a character for consideration here?
Hmm... probably should have REREAD the character creation guidelines heh ^_^. Got too excited!
What exactly would a GM be looking for in an alias? I've extensively read through the core, advanced core books and rule books and played a few sessions at a local store but this would be my first PbP.
