What is the wording on the scenario? I haven't received my cards yet.
Thanks. So I'd say that applies to when you defeat the villain. That is, after all, one way a location gets permanently closed.
Interestingly, this might be the first case where you can defeat the villain and win the scenario, but also die. The order is:
1. Defeat villain.
2. Close his location. (So you'd apply the scenario power now.)
3. Check to see if the villain can escape. If he can't you win. (I'd say you do this whether or not you had to reset your hand and end your turn.)
Until now, triggered closing effects didn't require you to draw a card, but this would. So that might make things interesting.
Can't cast levitate/teleport, can't cast cure, can't cast scrying on the next location...
Not a whole lot of things that you'd want to do after closing a location I can think of. If one of the locations is the general store, that would give you a reason to keep exploring after it's closed. I don't know what locations are in this scenario, though.
I'd like some clarification on Hawk's point: Can you die?
When you defeat a villain and he has nowhere to escape, what order are things done in?
1. Defeat villain
2. Check for escape (can't)
3. WIN!
or
1. Defeat villain
2. Close location
3. Reset hand and end turn per scenario rule (with potential to die)
4. Check for escape (can't)
5. WIN! (well, everyone else does if you died)
This question is moot if the villain can escape, as the game does not end.
The order prescribed in the rulebook is the second one:
Encountering a Villain
Attempt to temporarily close open locations.
Encounter the villain.
If you defeat the villain, close the villain’s location.
Check to see whether the villain escapes.
And in the section providing details for each of those steps:
If You Defeat the Villain, Close the Villain’s Location. You do not need to fulfill the When Closing requirement. Examine the location deck; if there are no additional villains in it, banish all of the cards and flip the location card over. The location is permanently closed, and the location’s When Permanently Closed effect is triggered. If any villains remain in the deck, banish everything except the remaining villains and shuffle the deck; the location is not permanently closed, but it is temporarily closed, and the defeated villain cannot escape to it.
So you would activate the When Permanently Closed effect, which would seem to also activate the scenario power.
Though I supposed you could maybe make an argument that "finish one thing before you start another" requires you to finish the encounter with the villain before activating the scenario power, since you need the rest of your turn to check if the villain can escape and potentially do the villain shuffle. Therefore, you can't really end your turn until you are done with the villain encounter. But Mike or Vic would have to clarify that.
We also had a bit of confusion with that scenario rule : seems like it has nearly no effect at all. It somehow would make more sense if the scenario power was the opposite (something like : after closing, DO NOT reset your hand at the end of turn unless you succeed at whatever check).
I agree that two more lines on the subject by Vic or Mike would be very welcome.
Under normal circumstances, you cannot die by resetting your hand when you complete the win condition, which is normally done by defeating the villain and preventing his escape. This happens often; just last week, Lisa came into a meeting crowing about how her team killed the villain while not just her character but several others were about to be at the draw-and-die step. (Ranzak was already dead. Poor Ranzak.)
There are some rare circumstances when you can die in this process, though, and that's when a card overrules the rules. The rules remind you of this obliquely by saying:
Encounter the Villain. This encounter works exactly as it does with other banes, but be careful to look for any special rules listed on the villain card or the scenario card.
Here's why this matters: You want cards that change your deck composition to follow through. For example, say you beat a villain at the General Store, winning the game. The When Permanently Closed power needs to kick in and let you acquire the top card of a new stack of items (the rest of which you will never get). Since the location overrules the rules, it happens.
So with Underneath Sandpoint, the sequencing goes:
1. Encounter The Scribbler (not the first time).
2. Temporarily close all other open locations, if any.
3. Defeat The Scribbler, ending up with fewer total cards in your hand and deck than your hand size.
4. Close the location, triggering the win condition.
5. Note the scenario power.
6. Fail the Wisdom check.
7. Reset your hand.
8. Die.
9. Check to see if all other characters are dead. If so, lose the game.
10. If #9 did not cause you to lose, win the game.
Unless Vic tells me otherwise, that's how it works.
Mike
Chief Technical Officer
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The "Encountering the Villain" steps are:
•Attempt to temporarily close open locations.
•Encounter the villain (meaning you must do everything you would normally do as part of the encounter).
•If you defeat the villain, close the villain’s location (meaning you must do everything you would normally do as part of closing the location).
•Check to see whether the villain escapes—if the villain has nowhere to escape to, you win!
So Mike has the right outcome, though I wouldn't say that step 4 is when the win condition is "triggered"—Mike's steps 4 through 9 are all part of "If you defeat the villain, close the villain’s location," and you don't check to see if you win until Mike's step 10.
Sure, that makes sense. It's an odd situation.