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Artanthos wrote:I think you are missing my point. I'm saying that utility for a caster doesn't come from their feats, it comes from their spells.Sub_Zero wrote:You then compared him to a wizard with 0 investment in blasting.The OP's argument was, feat chains penalize melee more than casters. Not true. All optimized characters utilize feat chains, regardless of class.
Without feat support, the casters spells are going to be significantly less effected.
No different than the fighter dealing less damage without feats supporting his attack.

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First off, Point Blank Shot either should not exist, or should be dramatically better than it is.
Secondly, Precise Shot is nothing more than an artificial tax on archery (which, admittedly, is too good in PF compared to the other ranged attack methods. We can debate how much crossbows/slings should be improved and whether or not bows should be nerfed.)
Neither of those feats are tied to marital characters.
Most blasters will have both by 3rd level.

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MattR1986 wrote:Regardless of whether you meant it as a negative to prove a point, the idea of spell chains/trees is pretty intriguing.That's pretty much how GURPS has its default magic system work - it's a skill-based system, so each spell is its own skill, and some require you to already know some weaker spells in the same group.
I preferred the spell system in Rolemaster, where you learned spell lists.
Casters also had to invest skill points into making many offensive spells (such as bolts) effective.

Sub_Zero |

Sub_Zero wrote:Artanthos wrote:I think you are missing my point. I'm saying that utility for a caster doesn't come from their feats, it comes from their spells.Sub_Zero wrote:You then compared him to a wizard with 0 investment in blasting.The OP's argument was, feat chains penalize melee more than casters. Not true. All optimized characters utilize feat chains, regardless of class.Without feat support, the casters spells are going to be significantly less effected.
No different than the fighter dealing less damage without feats supporting his attack.
First, your statement is 100% true, however it is still missing the point entirely.
Do you really think that wizards rely on feats as much as fighters?

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A blaster wizard certainly relies on (Dazing) metamagic->spell perfection.
An Enervation wizard certainly relies on Thanatopic and a few others -> spell perfection.
Summoning creatures is rather lackluster without Augment Summoning.
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They don't rely on feats quite to the degree that fighters do, but the feats are quite important to wizards too.

Malwing |
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A blaster wizard certainly relies on (Dazing) metamagic->spell perfection.
An Enervation wizard certainly relies on Thanatopic and a few others -> spell perfection.
Summoning creatures is rather lackluster without Augment Summoning.
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They don't rely on feats quite to the degree that fighters do, but the feats are quite important to wizards too.
But the argument is that feat taxes are more intensive for combat feats that martial classes rely on, not that feats don't effect casters. A single feat for a wizard is considerably more powerful because there's less of a chance he has to spend it on something terrible in order to get something good.