I think the sling already has a good place; dirt cheap, virtually no weight to carry, and at a pinch you can get new ammunition for free.
I'm not sure if the rules could be changed to reflect its differences to the bow in real life; capable of causing just as much damage as a bow (a sling bullet can cause massive internal injury, internal bleeding and bone breakages) BUT much more sensitive to heavy armour.
Unfortunately weapon/armour relationships in Pathfinder don't show much specificity; in real life a sling and a bow are equally useful (in trained hands) against an unarmoured or lightly armoured opponent, but the sling is very weak against a heavily armoured opponent. (I've spent a fair amount of time using both bows and slings in real life).
I like the idea of scaling up the dice for crossbow mightiness rather than directly copying the longbow mighty mechanics. It does seem to offer the opportunity to work more neatly with the Vital Strike line, which I approve of.
Will do some testing.
I believe what I have done for my homebrew is alter sling damage based on what's being used as ammunition(like second ed arrows, iirc), and have it do slightly less than light flail damage when used in melee regardless of ammunition.
Crossbows are a bit more powerful, but much slower to use. Akin to the rules that are already in Pathfinder for arbalests, I think. Either that or I greatly increased the critical damage. I gotta go back and double check.
The current problem with the sling is the number of actions to use.
1) draw sling (Move, or part of a move)
2) load sling (Move)
3) fire sling (Standard)It takes so long to get a sling started if combat breaks out, that you'll often already be in melee before you can fire.
But, in reality, it does take a short while to get a sling out, untangle it, and ready it for slinging. The game mechanic reflects this. It's NOT a particularly strong weapon (although it can be effective) ... But if you want to quickly and cheaply train a load of militia men to rain down stones on an army a few hundred feet over there, it's ideal.
The trick with any weapon is, ideally, to have it drawn in preparation for combat. With a sling, if you suspect there may be a counter ahead, you put a stone in the sling pouch. With a bow, you nock an arrow. Then you can swing and shoot or draw and shoot very quickly.
Slingers tend to be unarmoured, and therefore faster on their feet than armoured types. Sling a couple of bullets, then turn and run until you build up the distance again ... then stop to sling a couple more bullets ... repeat. Obviously easier outside than inside.
|
@sgriobhadair: realism only works to a certain point, I think.
"Realistically", slings, for a time, were important in warfare, because they were effective. However, Pathfinder slings aren't, really. They have low base damage, low range increment (compared to other pure ranged weapons) and they're even slower than crossbows.
Compared to bows, bows take 1 move per round less to use because loading them is a free action. From level 2-3, the price of a mighty composite bow isn't holding you back anymore, and the bow also does more damage per arrow than the sling.
You can draw a bow and shoot your first arrow in the same round. With Quickdraw, you can even fire in the surprise round. With slings, this is impossible.
A crossbow can (arguably) be carried with the first bolt already loaded. That also lets you fire a shot in the first round of combat. Also, there is Rapid Reload for crossbows.
I think that what "went wrong" is that because slings are a Simple weapon, they automatically receive worse stats than a martial weapon. This way of writing rules worked well enough for the melee weapons, because there is a variety of decent martial weapons to choose from. But for ranged weapons, bows are the ONLY good ranged weapon.
That was my aim: to create more alternative ranged weapons that are good in ways different from normal bows. In the case of crossbows, by making them the "shotgun" of the ranged weapons. Slings remain cheap and easy, but by making them just a little bit faster to use, they become viable. I hope.
Here's what I did for the sling...
Slings are simple weapons that do 1d3 damage for small versions and 1d4 for larger versions. Both versions add the wielders strength modifier to damage rolls. For shaped stone ammunition, the critical hit damage is 19-20 x2, for leaden bullets, the critical hit damage is x3. Other types of ammunition may differ, for example, normal rocks do damage as if the sling in question was one size smaller. The sling has a range of 60, but range increment increases beyond this have their penalty doubled, then tripled, then quadrupled, respectively. A loaded (i.e. has a bullet or stone in it and is prepared to fire) masterwork sling can be used in melee as if it were a flail, but does damage equivalent to a sling, and the sling must be reloaded if a 1 is rolled. A sling can also be used as a garrotte, but is treated like a normal garrotte when used in this fashion, even if the sling is masterwork or magical. A sling can be easily hidden on someone's person with a Slight of Hand check DC 10, or a Disguise check DC 15 if hidden in plain sight on someones clothing as an odd fashion statement, eyepatch or bandage. These checks are opposed by Perception as normal, but the sling does not grant a +4 bonus to Perception when being searched for like other weapons do- it is made out of a pliable material that is easy to twist and contort into a hiding space or around a body part. The ammunition is not so easy to hide, however, beyond a stone or bullet or stone or two(maximum of the wielders Dexterity modifier +1, minimum 1), and even these are treated like normal with respect to the aforementioned +4 bonus to Perception when searched for, and are a DC 20 to masquerade as an odd piece of jewelry using the Disguise skill.
|
I never understood the aversion to slings. They are really cheap, everyone can use them, and you get to add your strength bonus to damage. As a melee type, high strength character, a sling is the best ranged weapon to start the game with. Its portable, easy to conceal, ammo is abundant and with a 16 strength it does better average damage than a long bow (1d4 +3 for 5.5 damage vs 1d8 for 4.5 damage). Understandably, once your characters get to a high enough level to afford mighty composite strength bows, a sling's utility goes way down, but I still find just about every fighter I create still has one stuffed into his back pocket even after I get a good bow.
The slings beauty lies in its simplicity of use, light weight, and abundance of ammunition.
In pathfinder society (and RPGA)events ALL my characters carry 5 extra slings in their backpack. Over the years its mind-boggling how many characters I've run across that have no way of combating a flying opponent, or one who is more than 30' away. Wizard out of spells? have a sling. All the sorcerer's spells short range? hand him a sling. Mighty Bigbash the fighter only bothered to buy a greatsword for his character? hand him a sling. What, the villain sundered the ranger's bow? hand him a sling.
Also, depending on your GM, there's all kinds of great improvised uses for a sling.
Party member dying and need to get a potion across a battlefield in a single round? Throw it from a sling as an improvised weapon, and hope your buddy standing over the body is good at catching.
Need to safely lower your toad familiar down a hole? Tie a sling to the end of a rope for a handy cradle.
Need a belt that can be used as a weapon? A sling is your best friend.
Need a ranged weapon to sneak into a fancy ball or political meeting? a sling is your best friend, especially if used as part of a supportive undergarment!
So don't always deride the lowly sling, like rope, I believe its something that every adventurer should carry.