Spell Perfection Wording

[J Michael Neal]

From reading the threads maybe this is clear to other people but I find the wording of the Spell Perfection feat to be really ambiguous. If it didn't seem that everyone else thinks otherwise it wouldn't be ambiguous at all and would clearly mean the opposite of what people are saying. It says, "Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level."

Everyone seems to interpret this as saying that you cannot, say, use the feat to put Quicken Spell on a spell of 6th level or greater because that would raise the modified level of the spell to more than 9. But that's not what the feat actually says. It says that the one metamagic feat you apply using doesn't change the level of the spell and it uses a spell slot of the same level as the base spell, unless you put other metamagic feats on it.

As the feat is written, you should be able to use Spell Perfection to put any single metamagic feat you know on to whatever spell you have perfected regardless of level. The caveat would apply only to putting additional metamagic feats on that same spell. I could believe that that's not what the designers intended but that's not what they wrote.

[PathlessBeth]

Unless you actually wrote the spell, the only thing to go off of to guess what they author intended is what he/she actually wrote.
However, occasionally (especially on the forums) people will confuse "what the author intended" with "what I [the poster] want the author to have intended." Those people will insist that the rules say X when they unambiguously say Y.

In this case, though, I think

Quote:

Everyone seems to interpret this as saying that you cannot, say, use the feat to put Quicken Spell on a spell of 6th level or greater because that would raise the modified level of the spell to more than 9.

is the intended interpretation, because otherwise the clause

Quote:

as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level.

would be completely redundant. So, based on the additional clause, I am guessing that the popular interpretation is the RAI.

RAW, though, you are correct. There's nothing stopping a quickended 9th level spell if you have spell perfection for it, aside from house rules.

EDIT: It also sometimes happens that people who play with the same house rules for a long time confuse their house rules with the actual rules, which causes confusion when people from different groups talk to each other. It could well be that the people you see claiming Spell Perfection works differently from how it is written are simply mixing up the rules with their own house rules. I know I do that sometimes.

[Ascalaphus]

Spell Perfection wrote:

Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. [/b]Whenever you cast that spell[/b] you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

I too find myself in a minority of opinion. People seem to think that you apply the metamagic during preparation, but the bolded part suggests to me that you actually wait to apply your free metamagic until the moment you actually cast the spell.

So you could prepare a Quickened Scorching Ray (in a level 6 slot), and then when you cast it apply Maximized spell to it, or Silent, if you need Silent at the moment of casting.

Flexibility. Nice. Especially nice for optimizing your Threnodic/Thanatopic/Silent spells. But there may also be a downside.

"Whenever you cast that spell" suggests that you're already casting the spell. What happens if you're already casting a normally prepared spell, and then apply Quicken? Does the spell you started casting as a Standard end up costing only a Swift? That's fine, assuming you still had a Standard and a Swift available.

But what if you only had a Swift left? Then can you start to cast the spell as a Standard and immediately turn it into a Swift? I don't think so.

I've never seen anyone else interpret Spell Perfection like this, but the language seems pretty clear to me. So am I wrong, and why? Or is Spell Perfection quite different than people think? Perhaps much more flexible but with a little less raw strength (because you're less likely to use it to Quicken things)?

[Diego Rossi]

Ascalaphus wrote:

Spell Perfection wrote:

Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. [/b]Whenever you cast that spell[/b] you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

I too find myself in a minority of opinion. People seem to think that you apply the metamagic during preparation, but the bolded part suggests to me that you actually wait to apply your free metamagic until the moment you actually cast the spell.

How could a spontaneous spellcaster benefit from this feat if weren't using it on the fly?

The only group of spellcasters that have a problem with a metamagiched spell casting time are spontaneous spellcasters.

- * -

To the OP:

PRD wrote:

Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level.

It give you a sequence. Take a spell, apply the metamagic. Now check if it respect the conditions set by the feat.

The metamagiched spell would use a level 10+ spell slot? You can't use the feat benefit.
It is 9- ? You can use the feat benefit.

[J Michael Neal]

Diego Rossi wrote:

PRD wrote:

Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level.

It give you a sequence. Take a spell, apply the metamagic. Now check if it respect the conditions set by the feat.

The metamagiched spell would use a level 10+ spell slot? You can't use the feat benefit.
It is 9- ? You can use the feat benefit.

I don't think this reply makes any sense. It might work if the feat used the conditional tense, as in, ". . . as long as the total modified level of the spell would not have used a spell slot above 9th level." But it doesn't; it refers to the spell slot that the spell does use.

[Orfamay Quest]

J Michael Neal wrote:

It might work if the feat used the conditional tense, as in, ". . . as long as the total modified level of the spell would not have used a spell slot above 9th level." But it doesn't; it refers to the spell slot that the spell does use.

Here's something that may be helpful for interpreting rules. If there are multiple potential interpretations, but only one makes sense, there is only one interpretation.

Similarly, no part of the rules are meaningless.

As you yourself state:

Quote:

As the feat is written, you should be able to use Spell Perfection to put any single metamagic feat you know on to whatever spell you have perfected regardless of level.

... which in turn, makes the limitation literally meaningless.

Which means that your interpretation of "how the feat is written" is wrong.