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Where does it say you can have two familiars or two bonded items?
Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item. Once per day, your bond item allows you to cast any one of our spells known (unlike a wizard's bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook).
You levels STACK with wizard levels. You don't gain a separate ability, in fact, it has the same name. So, if you have wizard levels, you don't gain another usage of "Arcane Bond", you just gain more ability in the arcane bond you already have.
Saying otherwise would be like: "Well, I have 1d6 Sneak Attack damage form rogue levels, and 2d6 Sneak Attack damage from Vivisectionist levels, so I think I'll use the 2d6 damage on my first hit, and then the 1d6 version on the next one..." No! They Stack! You don't gain two -seperate- sneak attack abilities, you get better in the one you already know!
you're incorrect in your wiz 19 sorc 1 assertion. Sorcerers are only limited by their spells known table, wizards are not.
neither of these classes is supposed to be capable of being prepared for any situation at a moments notice,Actually wizards very nearly are, specially with fast preparation feat/discovery.
a sorcerer can now have an unlimited number of "spells known" according to you.If they take arcane bloodline, and take arcane bonded item, and invest in having a spell book, and make their checks... in short yes.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
my point is that you are saying that spells a wizard puts into his spell book are "spells known". if this is true, then having any levels in sorcerer would mean that those spells also count towards "spells known" for the purpose of sorcerer spell slots because, as you stated, there is no distinction for the term within the rules. but if that were true, then having any levels in wizard would essentially make the "spells known" column for the sorcerer table mean nothing. if i know a spell, i know a spell, right? that's what you are saying. if that's true, then one level in wizard gives a sorcerer unlimited access to the entire spell list. i'm saying that that is incorrect. because that is incorrect, the arcane bond from wizard can only cast a spell written in the spellbook, while the arcane bond from the bloodline can only cast a spell that the sorcerer gained via his class table'ed limited number of "spells known".
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Where does it say you can have two familiars or two bonded items?
Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item. Once per day, your bond item allows you to cast any one of our spells known (unlike a wizard's bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook).You levels STACK with wizard levels. You don't gain a separate ability, in fact, it has the same name. So, if you have wizard levels, you don't gain another usage of "Arcane Bond", you just gain more ability in the arcane bond you already have.
Saying otherwise would be like: "Well, I have 1d6 Sneak Attack damage form rogue levels, and 2d6 Sneak Attack damage from Vivisectionist levels, so I think I'll use the 2d6 damage on my first hit, and then the 1d6 version on the next one..." No! They Stack! You don't gain two -seperate- sneak attack abilities, you get better in the one you already know!
you should refer to my privious post where i explain the difference between arcane bond and sneak attack. sneak attack is a bonus. arcane bond is not. arcane bond is an object gained via a class ability. just like a gunslingers gun or a bladebound magus' blackblade. if a bladebound magus were to take eldritch heritage and get arcane bond just like the wizard in the OP, he would not apply the benifits of an arcane bond object to his blackblade, he would gain a completely different item, even though the blackblade is a bonded item, it doesn't stack with anything because they are two different items.
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Saying otherwise would be like: "Well, I have 1d6 Sneak Attack damage form rogue levels, and 2d6 Sneak Attack damage from Vivisectionist levels, so I think I'll use the 2d6 damage on my first hit, and then the 1d6 version on the next one..." No! They Stack! You don't gain two -seperate- sneak attack abilities, you get better in the one you already know!
you're applying your logic incorrectly.
They stack because they say they do.
If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack's extra damage dice
If we were to apply your argument sneak attack (which we can't it's literally comparing equipment to combat modifiers...) you'd be telling someone that they only get the vivisectionist or the rogue sneak attack but not both at the same time because they stack.
my point is that you are saying that spells a wizard puts into his spell book are "spells known"
So tell me this, if wizards have no known spells what happens when they cast secret page? Is it incapable of showing "...another spell of equal or lower level known by the caster." No surely not. Likewise we see synonyms all over the place for known when you read about wizards preparing spells. It's clear they know the spells they scribe and succeed at deciphering. Wizards know an infinite number of spells... they infact know every spell in their books.
if this is true,
It's true regardless of if you believe in it or not, much like science.
then again, i affirm, no matter how many spells you might have written in yours spellbook, if you have levels in sorcerer you only know how many the table says you know, so everything else written in your book is completely unknown to you and you cant read it....that's RAW.
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Saying otherwise would be like: "Well, I have 1d6 Sneak Attack damage form rogue levels, and 2d6 Sneak Attack damage from Vivisectionist levels, so I think I'll use the 2d6 damage on my first hit, and then the 1d6 version on the next one..." No! They Stack! You don't gain two -seperate- sneak attack abilities, you get better in the one you already know!you're applying your logic incorrectly.
They stack because they say they do.
If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack's extra damage diceIf we were to apply your argument sneak attack (which we can't it's literally comparing equipment to combat modifiers...) you'd be telling someone that they only get the vivisectionist or the rogue sneak attack but not both at the same time because they stack.
That's exactly what I'm saying, in an effort to point out that it's wrong. You don't say "I have 2d6 SA from vivisectionist, and 1d6 from rogue, and I can only use one" You say that you "have 3d6 SA". Thats how stacking works.
The same applies to Arcane Bond. Magically, both the wizard and sorcerer have it named the same, just like Sneak Attack. And it says that they stack, just like Sneak Attack. It is the same class feature, although there is clarification on how bonded objects work for sorcerers.
As for the bladebound magus, the blade is more considered a familiar than a bonded object. In fact, it's NOT a bonded object.
A black blade is bonded to a particular magus, much like a familiar, but in more of a partnership than a master-servant relationship.
Reading the rest of the ability will show that it makes no reference to bonded items.
ahh, i misremembered about the black blade, i apologize.
you are still missing the point about sneak attack vs. arcane bond however. Sneak Attack is a Bonus. Arcane Bond is NOT. when the bloodline version mentions levels of wizard stacking, its only to determine statistics of that one item. there is no bonus being stacked here. an object is an object, no matter how you aquire it, it is not a bonus. you cannot stack objects (no pun intended), you just get more of them.
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you can have an opinion all day, but that's not what the rules forum is about.
Just to refresh you on that issue (raw and written rather than just continually spouting random opinions without reference like you're doing)
A wizard may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.
A sorcerer's selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new sorcerer level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known.
In your example the sorcerer side only knows what's on the table for spell casting.
The wizard side knows any in his book.
The arcane bond for both whoever follow different rules. Sorcer merely that they know a spell (the book or table)
and the wizard bond only states in the book (so excludes the sorc).
I wouldn't disagree that it's reasonable to limit the spontaneous casting to only the sorc side for the sorc bond, but it's not raw.
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The same applies to Arcane Bond. Magically, both the wizard and sorcerer have it named the same, just like Sneak Attack. And it says that they stack, just like Sneak Attack. It is the same class feature, although there is clarification on how bonded objects work for sorcerers.
If I have two pearls of power, can I recoup one or two spells per day?
edit- another example
IF I take gunslinger and take holy gun do I have one or two battered fire arms?
you sir are factually incorrect, a wizard does in fact learn and know spells.
Quote:
No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell....the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook
Quote:
Once a wizard understands a new spell, he can record it into his spellbook.
Quote:
A wizard may know any number of spells.
Now you may say well sorcerers "spells known" is different from wizards.Quote:
Spells: A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list presented in Spell Lists. She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time.
Quote:
A sorcerer's selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new sorcerer level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study.
Quote:
Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a sorcerer need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level.
As you can see functionally known is the same for either class, the only difference is that sorcerers have no spell book that they must prepare from in advance.The mechanics of spells known are the same for both classes rule wise. You either know a spell or you do not.
The wording for the sorcerer arcane bond was changed to prevent sorcers from having a book of utility spells that they could arcane bond from, thus bypassing the limitation of spells known.
you said right HERE that a spell a wizard has in his book is a "spell known"....now you are trying to say that only an arcane bond item would be able to say that a wizards spells from his book count as "spells known"? what are you playing at? either a spell is "known" by the caster or its not. i keep trying to tell you that when the phrase "spell(s) known" or "and spell he knows" is used its referring to only those spells gained by having levels in sorcerer. a wizard dont KNOW his spells. he has to reference his spellbook to be able to use them.
[edit] but the correct quote from you in the quote. i hit reply on the wrong one.
Correct, but it doesn't say you can't have two bonded objects.It also doesn't state in the rules for full attacking that you can't add 20d6 points of damage in each attack. The rules don't tell you what you can do, just what you can not do.
you got that backwards. the rules only tell you what you are allowed to do. it its not stated in the rules, its not allowed.
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if class a says :you get boxing gloves
and class b says: you get boxing gloves..
you have two boxing gloves.
If the boxing gloves give you the ability to spontaneously cast a spell you know, you can now do that twice.
If the boxing gloves can be enchanted as if you were the lvl granted by the class the gives it to you and had the appopriate feats, you can do that.
If class b says it stacks with class a for enchant purposes, one can be enchanted sooner than another...
if class a says :you get boxing gloves
and class b says: you get boxing gloves..you have two boxing gloves.
If the boxing gloves give you the ability to spontaneously cast a spell you know, you can now do that twice.
If the boxing gloves can be enchanted as if you were the lvl granted by the class the gives it to you and had the appopriate feats, you can do that.
If class b says it stacks with class a for enchant purposes, one can be enchanted sooner than another...
this i completely agree with. however, the second object serves you no purpose for casting an additional spell if you dont have the spells needed to be used with that item. without levels in sorcerer, you dont have any "sorcerer spells known" which are the only "spells known" this item uses.
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The same applies to Arcane Bond. Magically, both the wizard and sorcerer have it named the same, just like Sneak Attack. And it says that they stack, just like Sneak Attack. It is the same class feature, although there is clarification on how bonded objects work for sorcerers.If I have two pearls of power, can I recoup one or two spells per day?
Two, items have different rules that class abilities.
edit- another exampleIF I take gunslinger and take holy gun do I have one or two battered fire arms?
Once again two, but note that the class abilities have different names. This is not a good comparison because of that. The mechanics are obviously different too: They do different things with the added addendum "Pick a firearm, you get one".
ahh, i misremembered about the black blade, i apologize.
you are still missing the point about sneak attack vs. arcane bond however. Sneak Attack is a Bonus. Arcane Bond is NOT. when the bloodline version mentions levels of wizard stacking, its only to determine statistics of that one item. there is no bonus being stacked here. an object is an object, no matter how you aquire it, it is not a bonus. you cannot stack objects (no pun intended), you just get more of them.
I honestly don't think the intent was to get a second bonded item. However, seeing this is the rules forum, where RAW is the only thing that matters (note there's some sarcasm here), it would work exactly like animal companions would work. I found my own error in my logic. So, I concede.
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i keep trying to tell you that when the phrase "spell(s) known" or "and spell he knows" is used its referring to only those spells gained by having levels in sorcerer. a wizard don't KNOW his spells. he has to reference his spellbook to be able to use them.
A wizard knows all his spells in his book.
He can only cast them by prepping them from his book.
Trying to say he somehow does not know his spells means a wizard is incapable of using secret page for all it's purposes, and also means the text that says he "understands" and the text that says he "knows' are in fact in correct, which you can't say your book your referencing is incorrect that's not how debate works.
i keep trying to tell you that when the phrase "spell(s) known" or "and spell he knows" is used its referring to only those spells gained by having levels in sorcerer.
I agree that's the intent, but the words only make reference to spells known, which the wizard does in fact know spells. While there are FAQs and other things explaining how casters are limited to only casting from their classes books/known/familiar with their spell slots. There is nothing actually distinguishing spells known.
Lets go with another tact.
If you took imp eldritch heritage on an oracle. Could you use the arcane bond to cast one spell from your list of spells known?
this quote is from the other thread i posted.
The answer is no you can't as a sorcerer cast spells from a wizard book.Much like how a magus can't cast a spell from his magus slots with his wizard book or a summoner cast a spell from his sorcerer list of known spells.
if you agree that a sorcerers list of spells known are different than those a wizard gets, why would you believe that a sorcerers arcane bond object would be able to use a spell not on his list of known spells?
Lets go with another tact.
If you took imp eldritch heritage on an oracle. Could you use the arcane bond to cast one spell from your list of spells known?
although its clear that this was not intended, yes because an oracle DOES have a list of spells known. however, a wizard does not.
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Cavalier: Do animal companion levels from the druid class stack with cavalier mount levels?
If the animal is on the cavalier mount list and on the list of animal companions for your other class, your cavalier and druid levels stack to determine the animal's abilities. If the animal is not on the cavalier mount list, the druid levels do not stack and you must have different animals (one an animal companion, one a cavalier mount).
For example, if you are Medium druid and you choose a horse companion, levels in cavalier stack to determine the horse's abilities. If you are a Medium druid and you choose a bird companion, levels in cavalier do not stack to determine the bird's abilities, and you must choose a second creature to be your mount (or abandon the bird and select an animal companion you can use as a mount).
This same answer applies to multiclassed cavalier/rangers.
(Note that the design team discourages players from having more than one companion creature at a time, as those creatures tend to be much weaker than a single creature affected by these stacking rules, and add to the bookkeeping for playing that character.)
Just as a relevant point...
Just as a relevant point...Cavalier: Do animal companion levels from the druid class stack with cavalier mount levels?
If the animal is on the cavalier mount list and on the list of animal companions for your other class, your cavalier and druid levels stack to determine the animal's abilities. If the animal is not on the cavalier mount list, the druid levels do not stack and you must have different animals (one an animal companion, one a cavalier mount).
For example, if you are Medium druid and you choose a horse companion, levels in cavalier stack to determine the horse's abilities. If you are a Medium druid and you choose a bird companion, levels in cavalier do not stack to determine the bird's abilities, and you must choose a second creature to be your mount (or abandon the bird and select an animal companion you can use as a mount).
This same answer applies to multiclassed cavalier/rangers.
(Note that the design team discourages players from having more than one companion creature at a time, as those creatures tend to be much weaker than a single creature affected by these stacking rules, and add to the bookkeeping for playing that character.)
umm....both you and i have been arguing that arcane bond would net you two objects in this same situation....i now have to concede that if you used arcane bond to get two familiars, because the levels stack, it equals one familiar. i'm still not entirely sure that it would work the same for bonded objects because, well, they are objects, but i think my argument just got a lot weaker.
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Arcane Bloodline says, "As the Wizard ability.."
Wizard class ability says, "...a familiar or a bonded object"
Singular. There is no grounds for multiple bonded objects beyond wishful thinking, the fact it specifically goes on to state in the bloodline description that the different class levels stack together rather than counting as two separate totals is the final nail. As it happens level makes no difference for the bonded item, only spells you can cast matter, thus the Arcane Bloodline ability has no effect in game anything else is outside RAW and house ruling, which you are more than entitled to do, but RAW no go.
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you're making a distinction that doesn't exist. If I give you a apple and give you a apple again, do you have one or two...
There is no grounds for multiple bonded objects beyond wishful thinking, the fact it specifically goes on to state in the bloodline description that the different class levels stack together rather than counting as two separate totals is the final nail.
it's interesting that the bloodline specifically states "This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item." but makes no mention of two bonded items or two familiars.
If you read anything that's been written so far you'd realize the issue of stacking is not relevant to the issue of if you can have two or not.
Nothing prevents two arcane bonds only that you can't get a familiar AND arcane bond.
My reading of it saying that is that you get one bonded item, NOT that you may choose to have one bonded item with combined caster levels OR you can choose to have two bonded items. Nor does it give you one based off one of class, and another with combined levels. If you were to go wiz/sor the item should allow you to cast an additional sorcerer spell that you know OR one spell that is in your wizard spellbook, even if it has not been prepared that day.
Personally I don't think it would be game breaking to have to arcane bonded items, but I am 99.999999999999999999 sure it is not RAI.
Generally speaking the rules are permissive and tell you what you can do. They don't normally say what you can't do because the rule book would be too big, and the devs expect us to use common sense to figure out what can not be done based on telling us what we can do.
so wraithstrike, how do you feel about the gunslinger and holy gun issue?
Do they get one or two battered firearms?
Well if you took two levels in a class with a spellbook I would say you got one spellbook. The other spellbook does not magically appear, and neither should the other battered gun. I think when that rule was written the devs assume a single class character so the rules don't say you only get one gun, but if they were to chime in I think that is what they would rule officially.
so if I was a say monk first and then at lvl 2 picked up gunslinger I wouldn't get a battered gun with your permise.
You would, but not because it would magically appear. I would just work it into the game somehow.
My previous point was that they assumed no multiclassing, they do NOT intend to give you the same thing twice. That is why I said no to the gun. The monk does not have a battered gun already so that is why I would work it into the game.
As another example if you had a class that gave you an eidolon, and a second class also gave you an eidolon I would not give you two eidolons, especially if the books said the casters levels stack with the summoner class to determine the power of the eidolon.
edit:Now if you go monk and then summoner you get an eidolon.
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If you already have a class ability and you somehow gain that class ability again you do not get it twice, exactly the same as if you should get a feat twice, it grants no additional benefit. Whether that class ability be a gun, a familiar, a feat or some special power, the same applies, you get nothing extra unless it specifically states it stacks or adds somehow.
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I think you're assuming something that's not written into the rules of the game anywhere.
It's funny you mention the ediolon thing... ya know much like animal companions....
Cavalier: Do animal companion levels from the druid class stack with cavalier mount levels?
If the animal is on the cavalier mount list and on the list of animal companions for your other class, your cavalier and druid levels stack to determine the animal's abilities. If the animal is not on the cavalier mount list, the druid levels do not stack and you must have different animals (one an animal companion, one a cavalier mount).
For example, if you are Medium druid and you choose a horse companion, levels in cavalier stack to determine the horse's abilities. If you are a Medium druid and you choose a bird companion, levels in cavalier do not stack to determine the bird's abilities, and you must choose a second creature to be your mount (or abandon the bird and select an animal companion you can use as a mount).
This same answer applies to multiclassed cavalier/rangers.
(Note that the design team discourages players from having more than one companion creature at a time, as those creatures tend to be much weaker than a single creature affected by these stacking rules, and add to the bookkeeping for playing that character.)
As an aside, this was already quoted on this exact same page...
same feature from two different classes essentially providing either one or two different companions... If we went with your logic this is impossible.
So we're told they stack if identical, but not if they are different.
I think you're assuming something that's not written into the rules of the game anywhere.
It's funny you mention the ediolon thing... ya know much like animal companions....
Cavalier: Do animal companion levels from the druid class stack with cavalier mount levels?
If the animal is on the cavalier mount list and on the list of animal companions for your other class, your cavalier and druid levels stack to determine the animal's abilities. If the animal is not on the cavalier mount list, the druid levels do not stack and you must have different animals (one an animal companion, one a cavalier mount).
For example, if you are Medium druid and you choose a horse companion, levels in cavalier stack to determine the horse's abilities. If you are a Medium druid and you choose a bird companion, levels in cavalier do not stack to determine the bird's abilities, and you must choose a second creature to be your mount (or abandon the bird and select an animal companion you can use as a mount).
This same answer applies to multiclassed cavalier/rangers.
(Note that the design team discourages players from having more than one companion creature at a time, as those creatures tend to be much weaker than a single creature affected by these stacking rules, and add to the bookkeeping for playing that character.)As an aside, this was already quoted on this exact same page...
same feature from two different classes essentially providing either one or two different companions... If we went with your logic this is impossible.
So we're told they stack if identical, but not if they are different.
Actually with my logic I would allow the class levels to stack not get two animal companions eidolons or bonded items.
1. Eidolon can take different forms, but they are still eidolons, and I seriously doubt you would get 2.
2. If you agree that identical things are combined and 2 of the same are not gained then why are you arguing for 2 bonded items?
Now if you wanted to argue for 1 bonded item and one familiar I might be able to see that, barring further examination of the rules.
edit: Eidolons are not animal companions anymore than a familiar is an animal companion so the ruling does not cross over.
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Now if you wanted to argue for 1 bonded item and one familiar I might be able to see that, barring further examination of the rules.
edit: Eidolons are not animal companions anymore than a familiar is an animal companion so the ruling does not cross over
Are you even reading anything now?
Or do you just not know how cavalier mount and animal companion works?
This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the cavalier's level as his effective druid level.
Much like a paladin, ranger, etc getting an animal companion/mount...
It's generally been assumed you always get just one animal companion/mount regardless of how many sources you have and that they all stack with each other. so that if you were say a 5pal/5 cavalier/5ranger/5 druid you wouldn't have 5 different mounts/animals at lvl 5, but you'd have one at lvl 20... Now we see there is an official source saying "well yes and no, take your pick basically"
So I guess if you want to use your sense of it has to be exactly different, we could have a bonded ring for sorc, and a bonded pinky ring for the wiz...
At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level.
and...
Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object.
You only have the 1 ability.
If you are a 10th level wizard and a 10th level Arcane bloodline sorc, your Arcane Bond is effectively at level 20. But you only have one such arcane bond.
You cannot have the same class feature more than one time. We know that these are the same class feature because of that first quote. We know that instead of getting two copies of the exact same ability, our effective level stacks because of the second quote.
That is all there is to this.
As to the last line…
This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item.
This prevents you from picking the other object in an effort to try to have the same class ability twice. If that clause wasn't there, people might try to get one of each... which is not the intention.
If you have this ability from sorc and wizard both, simply add up your sorc and wizard levels to determine how powerful the ability is.
For the record… Any ability which says it stacks with a similar/same ability does exactly that. Any ability which does not say that it stacks doesn’t, even if they have similar names or effects… or even if they seem for all intents and purposes identical. If they do not say they stack, they don’t. If they do say they stack, they do.
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You cannot have the same class feature more than one time. We know that these are the same class feature because of that first quote. We know that instead of getting two copies of the exact same ability, our effective level stacks because of the second quote.
So how do you resolve it with the FAQ? How do you resolve the gunslinger and holy gun and big game hunter issue? (one battered gun, three? two?)
The wizard arcane bond does not say it stacks, so there for it doesn't stack... and it states cast any spell in your book 1/day
The sorcerer arcane bond does stack with wizard so it does stack... and it states cast any spell known 1/day
Therefore we have two different arcane bonds with two different but similar effects.
You cannot have the same class feature more than one time. We know that these are the same class feature because of that first quote. We know that instead of getting two copies of the exact same ability, our effective level stacks because of the second quote.So how do you resolve it with the FAQ? How do you resolve the gunslinger and holy gun and big game hunter issue? (one battered gun, three? two?)
The wizard arcane bond does not say it stacks, so there for it doesn't stack... and it states cast any spell in your book 1/day
The sorcerer arcane bond does stack with wizard so it does stack... and it states cast any spell known 1/day
Therefore we have two different arcane bonds with two different but similar effects.
What FAQ are you referring to? I'm not familiar with gunslingers, I despise them in general. >.>
We would have two different abilities if the sorcerer one didn't say:
At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level.
Unfortunately, this means we are getting an arcane bond as though we are a wizard, meaning we get the wizard's arcane bond.
The rest of the ability tells us how to alter that ability for us, a sorcerer. It also tells us that it stacks with the Wizard levels we may or may not have. The ability tells us that it is the same ability as the wizard's. It tells us it stacks with wizard levels. It tells us we cannot use it to select the 'other' version of the ability.
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the faq about mount from cavalier and druid animal companion...
Unfortunately, this means we are getting an arcane bond as though we are a wizard, meaning we get the wizard's arcane bond.
The rest of the ability tells us how to alter that ability for us, a sorcerer. It also tells us that it stacks with the Wizard levels we may or may not have. The ability tells us that it is the same ability as the wizard's. It tells us it stacks with wizard levels. It tells us we cannot use it to select the 'other' version of the ability.
like the animal companion cavalier mount there's no actual ruling that prevents them from being two separate things unless the rule its self denies it (it only excludes familiar and arcane bond)
the faq about mount from cavalier and druid animal companion...
like the animal companion cavalier mount there's no actual ruling that prevents them from being two separate things unless the rule its self denies it (it only excludes familiar and arcane bond)Unfortunately, this means we are getting an arcane bond as though we are a wizard, meaning we get the wizard's arcane bond.
The rest of the ability tells us how to alter that ability for us, a sorcerer. It also tells us that it stacks with the Wizard levels we may or may not have. The ability tells us that it is the same ability as the wizard's. It tells us it stacks with wizard levels. It tells us we cannot use it to select the 'other' version of the ability.
I still don't understand.
They can either have two different things, or the same thing that stacks. This comes from the fact that you have an identical version of an ability, but that one has choice restrictions.
If you are a druid first, and have a cavalier forbidden animal companion... they didn't probably think you should be forced to abandon it, your faithful companion all these years. Similarly, they didn't want to encourage all cavalier to take a one level dip into druid to open up the full list for the mounts. I mean, pouncing into battle on a tiger is cool and all, but I mean, c'mon.
But, the Arcane Bond doesn't have any of those difficulties. They are fully compatible to stack, they say they stack, thus they do.
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Not really limitations, rather, rules for adapting an ability to be usable by a spontaneous spell caster.
The limitations he mentions is limitations of choice of options. A sorcerer can have a familiar or bonded item, just like a wizard. No limitations there. It's only stacking is concerned that limitations pop up, namely you only get better at what you already have.