Does anyone think it's worth equipping a starting (level one) arcane caster for melee - this would make him somewhat more versatile and survivable. He can then stop wearing armour as he acquires additional levels and becomes more of a threat with his magic.
There are a few things that could help with this concept
Possibly useful feats:
- am I right in saying a wizard or sorcerer only gets to choose ONE feat at first level if they are human, and no choice of feats for any other race?
- Armor Proficiency, Light (no attack penalties if wearing studded leather armour (a 1st level wizard or sorcerer couldn't afford a chain shirt, and padded or leather armour have no attack penalty anyway).
- Shield Proficiency (no attack penalties while holding a shield)
- Simple Weapon Proficiency (sorcerers already have this; could be useful for wizards - allows up to a longspear or morningstar that cause 1d8 damage)
- Weapon Finesse (because putting points in Dex instead of Str allows an AC boost from the stat as well). High Dex is more use than a shield.
- Toughness - adds three hit points at level one.
- Two Weapon Fighting for more attacks without too much penalty
Probably Toughness is the best choice here, to prevent the character being wiped out by one little hit, although Shield Proficiency and using a heavy shield could also be a good option - unlike armour that takes a while to remove, the shield can be easily dropped for casting.
Race choice to get a good weapon skill and physical stats
- Half-Orcs get the great-axe for 1d12 damage
- Elves get the longsword up to 1d8 and curve blade up to 1d10 (if they roll enough starting cash to afford it).
- Dwarves get the battle axe or war hammer up to 1d8
Prioritise spells with no somatic component, so the armour worn invites no chance of failure
- Flare (sorcerer / wizard 0) (doesn't have much effect but nice to use before closing in on someone to attack them)
- Light (sorcerer / wizard 0)
- Hold Portal (sorcerer / wizard 1)
- True Strike (sorcerer / wizard 1) (obviously only good if you can cause a decent amount of damage - half orc sorcerer with a great-axe and a decent strength score?)
- Ventriloquism (sorcerer / wizard 1)
Of course, with a cantrip outside of combat - and therefore not in a hurry - the chance of failure doesn't matter as the spell can be retried until it works. And even if they are in a hurry, even with studded leather and a light shield, spells with somatic components will still work 80% of the time - not too bad.
Any shield carried could be quickly dropped if necessary before casting in a hurry (or not generally worn - if the wizard is one layer back from the start of combat they'd have time to start yielding it when necessary).
Obviously any bonuses from constitution and strength would be a big help.
Any thoughts?
My mistake - I forgot about the level 1 feat everyone got, so a human gets to choose two.
OK, a possible build:
Human Melee-oriented Sorcerer lvl 1
20 point buy gives:
Str 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Dex 16, Con 14 (including +2 human bonus), Cha 14
(would definitely want to boost Cha later)
Hit Points: 12 (6 Sorcerer lvl 1 + 1 preferred class bonus + 2 Con modifier + 3 toughness feat)
Feats: Shield Proficiency, Toughness
Main weapon: Morningstar (1d8 +2 Str modifier damage). Plus some throwable weapons - a short spear and a couple of daggers perhaps.
Armour: Leather Armour (does give 10% failure chance on spells - but only those with somatic components) and Heavy Wooden Shield (no attack penalty due to Shield Proficiency Feat, can be put down or strapped to back for non-combat casting. He won't be on the party front line so he should have a chance to cast a first spell and grab his shield before engaging in melee)
That gives us an armour class 17 (10 + 2 leather armour + 2 wooden shield + 3 dex bonus).
Spells known for a sorcerer: 4 level 0 and 2 level 1:
0: Flare (use when closing to attack someone, no somatic component)
0: Light (no somatic component)
0: Detect Magic (10% failure rate from the leather armour - but unlikely to be needed in a hurry so can recast)
0: Prestidigitation (10% failure rate from armour, but can be recast the next round)
1: True Strike (no somatic component)
1: probably Color Spray (suffering a 10% failure rate from armour - worth the risk for the versatility)
I don't see any particular sorcerer bloodline as being ideal for this build; claws for melee offer similar damage potential to the morningstar but prevent carrying a shield.
I assume you will be using the Sage bloodline in order to use your Int as your spellcasting stat instead of Charisma. (nevermind it looks like you changed it from your initial post)
Other than that, at first level I would rather depend on getting my color spray to land rather than bumping my AC higher. To do that I would want to bump up my Cha in this case to raise the dcs of spells. Did you roll your stats or are you using the point buy system? It looks like you are trying to build more of a Magus than a Sorceror.
I assume you will be using the Sage bloodline in order to use your Int as your spellcasting stat instead of Charisma. (nevermind it looks like you changed it from your initial post)
Whoops, yes I started wizard and then changed to sorcerer, but hadn't changed everything over when I first posted.
Other than that, at first level I would rather depend on getting my color spray to land rather than bumping my AC higher. To do that I would want to bump up my Cha in this case to raise the dcs of spells. Did you roll your stats or are you using the point buy system? It looks like you are trying to build more of a Magus than a Sorceror.
As an experimental build, this was a 20 point buy. (GMing a campaign, though, I would insist on 4d6 drop lowest rolled in front of everyone; I like to see 18+ ability scores as rare). Really, I'm trying to stick to Core Rulebook and am trying to see how far the concepts in that can be pushed (for example, I think you can build a perfectly good Witch using the Druid or Wizard classes; no need for a separate Witch class). Probably these experiments will become important NPCs.
My emphasis is definitely role playing > roll playing, and concept > optimisation. So, this is taking a concept and seeing how it fits with the core rules.
|
If you're going to equip your sorcerer for melee at least use a longspear. The sorcerer is proficient, although the Wizard is not. It's risky for any arcane caster to enter melee, but at least reach tactics tend to keep the foe at a distance. This approach has several advantages:
1. You can fish for AoOs and still cast a spell every round. If a foe approaches then you get a free attack from the AoO. That's a win for you. If a foe does not approach then you don't get attacked. That's also a win for you.
2. Reach tactics encourage you to be at least 15' from the foe. As a result you will very rarely take a full attack. This is a good thing for a squishy arcane caster.
3. By being pokey you discourage foes from approaching you. Given a choice of giving you a free AoO or attacking an easier target, many foes will go for the easier target. This is why most reach weapons are historically considered defensive weaponry.
4. You can attack from the second rank, albeit at a -4 penalty. Without a reach weapon you could not attack at all from the second rank.
My 6th level PFS Sylvan Sorcerer does this. There's really no downside. It's free extra damage for no extra risk. Just don't spend build resources (esp. feats) on melee combat. Take your occasional free extra attack and leave the serious melee to the martial combatants.
If you're going to equip your sorcerer for melee at least use a longspear. The sorcerer is proficient, although the Wizard is not. It's risky for any arcane caster to enter melee, but at least reach tactics tend to keep the foe at a distance. This approach has several advantages:
1. You can fish for AoOs and still cast a spell every round. If a foe approaches then you get a free attack from the AoO. That's a win for you. If a foe does not approach then you don't get attacked. That's also a win for you.
2. Reach tactics encourage you to be at least 15' from the foe. As a result you will very rarely take a full attack. This is a good thing for a squishy arcane caster.
3. By being pokey you discourage foes from approaching you. Given a choice of giving you a free AoO or attacking an easier target, many foes will go for the easier target. This is why most reach weapons are historically considered defensive weaponry.
4. You can attack from the second rank, albeit at a -4 penalty. Without a reach weapon you could not attack at all from the second rank.
My 6th level PFS Sylvan Sorcerer does this. There's really no downside. It's free extra damage for no extra risk. Just don't spend build resources (esp. feats) on melee combat. Take your occasional free extra attack and leave the serious melee to the martial combatants.
Thank you! This is just the kind of thing I was looking for. (I originally played AD&D - not to mention the VERY simple Tunnels & Trolls, so Pathfinder combat is taking quite some getting used to). It looks like the long spear makes a caster who's used up all his spells or has no relevant spells left useful in melee without exposing him too much (and therefore there's less need for spell-disturbing armour or using up points in Dex).
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
You can spend better your points:
Current build:
Str 14 5 points
Int 10 0 points
Wis 8 -2 points
Dex 16 10 points
Con 14 (including +2 human bonus) 2 points
Cha 14 5 points
Total 20
vs
Str 14 5 points
Int 10 0 points
Wis 8 -2 points
Dex 16(including +2 human bonus) 5 points
Con 14 5 points
Cha 14 5 points
Total 18 points
With the 2 points left you can raise your cha to 15 at a total cost of 7 points and get it to 16 at level 4 with the ability increase.