This question was rised in one of those threads that should not be named for mods sanity.
So, it should be crystal clear that the prowess of barbarian just rised by a lot since core. I wonder if the DEvs like it or they regret it. WOuld they change it if the have a time machine?
ps: I am not asking it directly (naming devs) because It haves been stated to be rude action.
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Those are meant to be flavourful options, fleshing out your character's personality, and helping you tell a story.
You are a bad person for even considering the mechanical implications.
...that's approximately the kind of answer I'd expect.
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The healing spells that aren't negated are halfed.
Superstitious is a very good Rage Power, but it has its price.
Also: Superstitious with Core +7 bonus on 20th level
Superstitious with APG +15 bonus on 20th level
As a morale bonus, it doesn't stack with the bonus on will saves from rage. It's a nice bonus but, with the exception of fortitude saves, nowhere near the 'only fail on a 1' it became with the APG.
The healing spells that aren't negated are halfed.
Superstitious is a very good Rage Power, but it has its price.
But do people use spells to heal in combat between level 2 and 10? No, they don't. They use channeling.
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Most importantly, how often do you need healing as the toughest PC class in the game with options like Invulnerable Rager to make you even tougher?
If a Fight is coming down to HP damage, the Barbarian has already won.
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Every class gets powercreep when a new book comes out such as APG. Why is the barbarian getting harassed lately when he is like a toddler in caster town?
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You weren't talking about in combat healing??? That is the only time superstition applies lolThat's a good point. Although I wasn't talking about in combat healing.But do people use spells to heal in combat between level 2 and 10? No, they don't. They use channeling.The healing spells that aren't negated are halfed.
Superstitious is a very good Rage Power, but it has its price.
You might want to reread the rules. There are cases where barbarians need after combat healing while raging. Although that's mostly a problem at high levels. There are certain workarounds like knocking out barbarians with raging vitality or healing them slowly with cure spells or channeling. Or casting Breath of Life when he ends the rage and dies.
Superstitious is the best Rage Power in the Core Rulebook, maybe in the game. But it's the support it got in the APG that made it that awesome.
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Hopefully they have no opinion. When they have an opinion on a good martial option it's usually "We haven't errataed something in a while, and they want us to errata things. Let's nerf some martial options for shits and giggles!"
Only if you rage before your Haste flinging party member goes.
Every class gets powercreep when a new book comes out such as APG. Why is the barbarian getting harassed lately when he is like a toddler in caster town?
This thread came from the rogue thread.
Most importantly, how often do you need healing as the toughest PC class in the game with options like Invulnerable Rager to make you even tougher?
If a Fight is coming down to HP damage, the Barbarian has already won.
Invulnerable rager, wich is not in core. I think that is jadeite point, that superstition get considerably better post core.
Every class gets powercreep when a new book comes out such as APG. Why is the barbarian getting harassed lately when he is like a toddler in caster town?
Well, ignoring casters, I would agree that barbarians, rangers and paladins have recieved strong power creep.
Monks too, but nobody should consider that a bad thing.
Fighters and rogues get minor improvements. Even the lore warder that get stated as a really bad archetype for this reason is not even in the same plane of existence of oath of vegeance, the litany spells or instant enemy for example.
And I am just curious if they consider the stantard (by now) barbarian rages powers as the good power level for the class or if it just was a mistake.
Every class gets powercreep when a new book comes out such as APG. Why is the barbarian getting harassed lately when he is like a toddler in caster town?
For serious. We get one good martial class and everybody freakin clamours to take away the two good options they get.
If you remove Superstition and Beast Totem what you have is something that is objectively worse than the paladin or ranger and maybe slightly better than the fighter because he will have more out of combat utility. But the fighter will end up doing significantly more damage if you remove those options.
The nice thing about the Supersition Beasttotem Barbarian was that you could deal good consistent damage (though perhaps not as much per hit as the fighter) but you got to full attack most of the time, and you were able to be targetted with magic and survive it rather than being mind controlled. These are things that every martial class should excel at. You don't need to remove these options from the barbarian, you need to add competing options like this to the fighter, monk, and rogue.
Every class gets powercreep when a new book comes out such as APG. Why is the barbarian getting harassed lately when he is like a toddler in caster town?For serious. We get one good martial class and everybody freakin clamours to take away the two good options they get.
If you remove Superstition and Beast Totem what you have is something that is objectively worse than the paladin or ranger and maybe slightly better than the fighter because he will have more out of combat utility. But the fighter will end up doing significantly more damage if you remove those options.
The nice thing about the Supersition Beasttotem Barbarian was that you could deal good consistent damage (though perhaps not as much per hit as the fighter) but you got to full attack most of the time, and you were able to be targetted with magic and survive it rather than being mind controlled. These are things that every martial class should excel at. You don't need to remove these options from the barbarian, you need to add competing options like this to the fighter, monk, and rogue.
I would like to know if the standar human superstiton chain + beast totem + invulnerable rager + come and get me is the desired power level for barbarians, if that is the case the game needs more rage powers of comaparable power level.
BEcause I do have problems with just one really nice options and there reast are just meh.
The healing spells that aren't negated are halfed.
Superstitious is a very good Rage Power, but it has its price.Also: Superstitious with Core +7 bonus on 20th level
Superstitious with APG +15 bonus on 20th levelAs a morale bonus, it doesn't stack with the bonus on will saves from rage. It's a nice bonus but, with the exception of fortitude saves, nowhere near the 'only fail on a 1' it became with the APG.
Don't moral bonuses to different things stack? The rage moral bonus is as bonus to Will saves. The Superstitious is bonus vs spells and spell like abilities.
I also would like to know that if barbarians where supposed to just be stronger than fighter, why paizo still punish the fighter with less out of combat utility than barbarians?
I would like to know if the standar human superstiton chain + beast totem + invulnerable rager + come and get me is the desired power level for barbarians, if that is the case the game needs more rage powers of comaparable power level.
BEcause I do have problems with just one really nice options and there reast are just meh.
Well, you have a valid point here. There really are only a few good rage powers and they're all fairly obvious by now, all from core and APG.
Superstition
Beast Totem
Come and Get Me
Strength Surge
Reckless Abandon
Spell Sunder
Other rage powers should provide similar levels of power to the barbarian that these do.
And the rogue, fighter, and monk could also use more abilities that provide similar power level boosts as these rage powers do for the barbarian.
I honestly view not taking the above rage powers as "trap" choices that one would only choose for role play or to purposefully avoiding taking the good options.
No, bonuses of the same type do not stack.The healing spells that aren't negated are halfed.
Superstitious is a very good Rage Power, but it has its price.Also: Superstitious with Core +7 bonus on 20th level
Superstitious with APG +15 bonus on 20th levelAs a morale bonus, it doesn't stack with the bonus on will saves from rage. It's a nice bonus but, with the exception of fortitude saves, nowhere near the 'only fail on a 1' it became with the APG.
Don't moral bonuses to different things stack? The rage moral bonus is as bonus to Will saves. The Superstitious is bonus vs spells and spell like abilities.
Not Necessarily. For instance, dodge bonuses to AC all stack...
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In fairness, the Celestial Totem and Dragon Totem lines are also both potentially very nice on some builds...just not quite on par with Beast Totem for most. Increased Damage Reduction is also solid.
But yeah, generally there aren't quite enough really good Rage Power options to differentiate Barbarians as much as would be nice.
Not Necessarily. For instance, dodge bonuses to AC all stack...
Dodge bonuses are an explicit exception to the general rule.
No, bonuses of the same type do not stack.The healing spells that aren't negated are halfed.
Superstitious is a very good Rage Power, but it has its price.Also: Superstitious with Core +7 bonus on 20th level
Superstitious with APG +15 bonus on 20th levelAs a morale bonus, it doesn't stack with the bonus on will saves from rage. It's a nice bonus but, with the exception of fortitude saves, nowhere near the 'only fail on a 1' it became with the APG.
Don't moral bonuses to different things stack? The rage moral bonus is as bonus to Will saves. The Superstitious is bonus vs spells and spell like abilities.
We've always played that they did stack as long the moral bonus was to something different. Like you can't use the moral bonus to hit from surprise accuracy with the moral bonus from inspire courage. But the that moral bonus on the saving throw would still apply as it that moral bonus applied to something different. I'm sure that's happen lots in our games. That's kind of pain to keep track off.