Ok, so With the rogue thread that popped up, one thing started running in my head, how MANY different classes/builds can effectively replace a rogue? SO I challange all of you with your great minds, to come up with certain archtype combos/class combos that can effectively replace a rogue in different troupes. For instance, the Crypt-Breaker being able to replace the "trap guy" rogue and the vivisectionist replacing the "I sneak around and stab things with pointy kitchen knives" rogues.
So what ideas do you guys have???
What capabilities does someone have to have in order to 'replace' the rogue? If 'trap guy' is sufficient then anyone who takes the trait that gives you trapfinding is sufficient.
Alchemist, bard, wizard
I know people talk about the ranger, but he just doesn't really do it.
Well it is mainly the "classic" tropes for the rogue. For instance: The "trap guy" rogue is often the guy who is heavy focused on skills and tends to fill the role of the Dead Body in the party. Most classes don't have the extra skill points to cover the rogue's bases in this role (Slieght of Hand, Stealth, Perception, Disable Device, Acrobatics)
The "assassin" rogue is also a common trope rogues are known for.
I know people talk about the ranger, but he just doesn't really do it.Not even with Trapfinding, and incredible stealth, and free TWF?
They just can't compete in raw skill points.
TWF is a trap.
Rangers can fill the rogue's roll, but they don't completely eclipse the rogue like other classes.
For what it's worth... being able to TWF without bothering with Dex makes TWF into a lesser trap for Rangers than most characters.
Or you make a switch hitter that is just as good or better in melee with only a two-hander and power attack
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Power attack, forcing people to play 2 handers since CRB. XD
xD
True :P
*Purr*
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When cooking, replace one rogue with one-quarter bard, one-third ranger, two pounds Parmesan cheese.
(Not alchemist. Might change meal color.)
When cooking, replace one rogue with one-quarter bard, one-third ranger, two pounds Parmesan cheese.
(Not alchemist. Might change meal color.)
I would imagine it would cause all sorts of health problems too. I mean, i prefer organic food, and alchemists are full of all sorts of artificial ingredients.
*Purr*
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where a quote from that rogue thread spawns another rogue thread
where a quote from that rogue thread spawns another rogue thread
where a quote from that rogue thread spawns another rogue thread
where a quote from that rogue thread spawns another rogue thread
where a quote from that rogue thread spawns another rogue thread
and all work and no play makes jack a dull boy
Play a trapper ranger.
Why disarm traps, when you can disarm AND place traps? and get a full BAB and all the other goodies a ranger get, like the animal companion, good saves, combat style, ect.
All at the cost of a bunch of mostly useless spells, that you should not even cast in the first place, because you are better off pelting 4-5 arrows in somebody throat instead of casting "entangle".
"Shooting" traps at people at higher level is also way more fun.
Combine with the falconer archetype to have a freaking cool bird at level 1 that can stagger people at level 6.
Freebooter trapper ranger
Be the pirate.
Let's not forget Magi with vanish and invisibility, which if you have Spell Recall you can keep casting all day if you need to.
Not sure if ranger 2/Lore warden x can do it.
Seeker Wildblooded Sage Sorcerer makes a good trapfinder
in the advanced class guide we will also have
the Investigator and the Slayer whom can pick up trapfinding with a talent tax
Slayer can also make a good twin knife guy and so can investigator past 5th level. slayer by emulating ranger, and investigator. by having an intelligence based at will lesser pseudo smite after 5th level. note investigator DPR sucks at 4th and below
Bloodrager can make an excellent assassin via invisibility and proper bloodline choices.
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Doyle here hasn't been updated in a while, but he's been a pretty good rogue substitute. Does just about everything but the face skills. If I had to rebuild him I'd make better use of the traits to save the feats, maybe use the new human bonus thing to trade out for skill focus. He's been through 12 levels of PFS and I think i've only regretted not having actual trapfinding once. Can't count how many times i was glad i could pull some stupid druid tricks.
Human with 14 int, 19 wisdom to start gives enough skill points and perception out the whazoo. Spends most of his time sitting on the raptors head with darkvision, blind sense, and his 23 perception looking for things to farie fire for the party. Has enough wildshapes to pop in and out of form, can cast spells and speak in wild shape.
I got him a velociraptor just to have guaranteed access to the form and.. well, it murderates things all on its own and if i throw the buffs on him he's downright scary, that takes care of my combat contribution.
He's the product of one of these previous discussions
Ok, so With the rogue thread that popped up, one thing started running in my head, how MANY different classes/builds can effectively replace a rogue? SO I challange all of you with your great minds, to come up with certain archtype combos/class combos that can effectively replace a rogue in different troupes. For instance, the Crypt-Breaker being able to replace the "trap guy" rogue and the vivisectionist replacing the "I sneak around and stab things with pointy kitchen knives" rogues.
So what ideas do you guys have???
I think a more practical exercise might be; can anyone think of a character concept (ie. NOT a class build, but an idea like "sneak sneak stab stab" or "scout" or "I AM FACE") that the rogue is the best at? Is there any niche that the rogue is the winner?
edit: fixed spelling
Ok, so With the rogue thread that popped up, one thing started running in my head, how MANY different classes/builds can effectively replace a rogue? SO I challange all of you with your great minds, to come up with certain archtype combos/class combos that can effectively replace a rogue in different troupes. For instance, the Crypt-Breaker being able to replace the "trap guy" rogue and the vivisectionist replacing the "I sneak around and stab things with pointy kitchen knives" rogues.
So what ideas do you guys have???
I think a more practical exercise might be; can anyone think of a character concept (ie. NOT a class build, but an idea like "sneak sneak stab stab" or "scout" or "I AM FACE") that the rogue is the best at? Is there any niche that the rogue is the winner?
edit: fixed spelling
nopies
Urban Ranger is better at traps and sneak sneak stab stab
Bard is a better face
Urban Ranger is a better guerilla warrior
Bard is a better scout
Vivisectionist is better at sneak attacks
Thanks for putting "rogue" in the title. I'm considering writing a script to auto-ignore these threads.
A Sage Seeker Sorcerer can do an excellent job as both a skill runner and a spellcaster. The combination of good skills to sustain your efforts and spells to highlight them and provide a higher level to it.
Thanks for putting "rogue" in the title. I'm considering writing a script to auto-ignore these threads.
Maybe you could write a script to not read or post threads that don't interest you. Or ones that you find grating. Or maybe you could just be an adult and live with the fact people disagree with you.
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Thanks for putting "rogue" in the title. I'm considering writing a script to auto-ignore these threads.
Thanks for coming in and telling us. I'm considering writing a script to auto-ignore your posts.
In another thread, I brought up the Kobold bloodline. I'm not entirely sure if this works better to replace a rogue or to supplement one.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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I think a more practical exercise might be; can anyone think of a character concept (ie. NOT a class build, but an idea like "sneak sneak stab stab" or "scout" or "I AM FACE") that the rogue is the best at? Is there any niche that the rogue is the winner?
edit: fixed spelling
Hmm. I would say the rogue can combine a lot of those concepts into one build: The sneaky stabby traps face, for example.
The mantra of my friend who is an excellent rogue player, and who tends to play human rogues, is that "13 skill points a level is not enough! I need more!" (8 base +3 int +1 human +1 favored class) Thier skill points give them a lot of diversity and you are selling them short if you refuse to use it. You actually get enough skills to be "best in the party" at a lot of things. Especially if you have actual teamwork and the party lets the rogue do his thing...sure, my wizard could be a half-rate rogue with his spells (seriously, a lot of "replace the skills" spells got nerfed in Pathfinder, see knock for example), but why not let the rogue be good at her job and I'll be good at mine?