Currently working on a melee archetype. Trying to decide if I want it to be more fighter-ish or rogue-ish. Might just make one for each. Give the fighter variant medium armor and a couple combat feats as they level. Give the rogue one stealth as a class skill and perhaps the ability to use the Gadgeteer's Gun, or Gadgeteer's Blade in this case, on every attack made in a round at higher levels. Both would have reduced reach on their projections, maybe even point blank.
Also working on a new grand gadget. A chest mounted gadget I think. One that grants bonuses to a stealth type character. I'm still puzzling it out. I want it to be good for that kind of concept, but not the one that everyone kind of defaults to because the gadgeteer is a ranged class.
As always, could use any and all feedback. Especially on the crossbow only archetype. I'm fairly certain it's balanced against the regular, but is giving bonus feats the way to go? Will the bonus feats make it better than a regular gadgeteer even?
Got a chance to play test at level 1 tonight. It actually went pretty well. Going to adjust a few things though based on what went on.
Probably going to nerf the basic acid shot from 1d6 + int modifier to just dealing int modifier on the next round. The 1d6 is just too much I think at low levels and at high levels it won't be really noticeable anyway.
The fire shot might be a little weak. It only hits adjacent targets with the splash and they get a reflex save. Plus it only deals half the total damage. It either needs to lose the save and just deal half damage or keep the save and deal full damage (save for half). Maybe it can deal half damage and they save versus being set on fire? Would like an opinion on this.
I might change how some of the durations projections work. 1 round per level just isn't great. Especially at low levels. You do get to cast them as move actions, but have really low energy. Using both projections and empowered shots really eats up the pool fast. At high levels the duration lasts longer than the battle will so it's fire once and forget. I'm thinking the middle ground is that the duration equals your int modifier. At low levels it'll last long enough to really get some mileage out the projection. At high levels it will probably still last longer than the entire encounter, but you might end up having to refresh. Especially if you cast before the encounter begins. Could definitely use feedback on this one.
Changed and updated a few things. Still working on the new grand gadget and other archetypes.
As always, could use any and all feedback.
So my current idea for the new grand gadget is as follows:
Gadgeteer's Vest - The Gadgeteer's Vest creates grants the gadgeteer an armor bonus to AC equal to their int modifier. It has an armor check penalty of -2 and an arcane spell failure rate of 40%.
The arcane spell failure rate is to help prevent level dips from int casters. Gadgeteers don't suffer from it anyway.
An upgrade would be making it masterwork and allowing it to be enchanted like a suit of armor. What kind of other upgrades could it have though? I keep going back and forth on things trying to decide what's good, what's bad, and what's broken.
I'm not sure how this balances out against the rest of the grand gadgets. I want it to be defensive and work well for the melee archetype I'm working on, but is this good enough or even too good? This would be typically be better than a chain shirt at first level and would improve well beyond that as they get higher in level.
I'd like to hear any ideas anyone might have on this.
Got some solid play testing in tonight. I'm trying out the gadgetron pet as my grand gadget and it's working out pretty well. I made some changes to it though to bring it down a little. I want it to be somewhere between a familiar and a druid's animal companion when you have the guardian upgrade. I need to work out a feat system of some sort for it.
I'm going to have to play test a lot more to decide if the gadgetron is better than the other gadgets. It was a nice extra combatant and actually helped quite a bit in battle. While this extra feature is certainly better than what the other gadgets can do, it does run the risk of being defeated and totally shutting down my casting. I kind of feel that it's balanced especially when compared to a druid's animal companion.
I tried out using durations of projections equaling my int modifier and it worked out really well. They last just long enough to matter.
My current group doesn't have a healer so I've been using the Reinforce projection a lot and I'm liking it. It feels good. We hit level 2 and I took Health Boost I. That came in handy immediately. We would have died without it. I was worried that 10 temp hit points at level 2 would be too much but the brief duration and additional energy cost feels balanced. We still took damage directly to our health pools and my energy pool drained at a fairly quick rate.
I've been playing as the crossbow/gunless archetype and it's working out pretty well.
Updated some of the minor gadgets to even out some of the bonuses.
Got some more play testing in. I've kind of taken up the roll of combat healer/buffer since there's no one else to do it. Which is fine, but I rarely have time to debuff enemies since the other PCs and myself are getting beat down. In another level or two I'll be more proficient at it and it'll get easier to juggle in some more offensive stuff.
We keep running into large groups of enemies which is the big problem. Lots of small attacks eat up the temp hp quickly and tear into our health pools directly. It's better to buff ourselves though in these situations. If we do run into fewer enemies or single tough ones I'll get a lot more mileage out of the debuffs.
I am wondering if what I'm doing is better or worse than what a cleric does. In combat at full health the guaranteed 10 temp hit points is definitely better but they're temp hit points with a limited duration. As we take damage to our health we really start to feel the pressure. Our down time can take days which is really dangerous if we're out in the middle of nowhere. Parties with clerics have no fear of such things.
I have a max of 5 times I can buff those temp hit points where as a cleric of equal level would have 3 spells and a bare minimum of 3 channel energies.
I'd really like to see some discussion about this from some outside sources.
I'm starting to think it might be best if I let this thread fade into the background and start a new one. The high post count is probably off putting and a lot of outdated information is up front. For a new reader it has to be confusing. A fresh start is always nice.
A new thread would be good.
I like the class, BTW.
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Thunderscape has a class like this called the "Steamwright". It works around using inventions which have a number of uses per day equal to the builders 3+int modifier (Except for a few more permanent inventions like the Steam-Vehicle). It also has a "Firepower" class feature that adds extra d8's of damage whenever you use a weaponized invention. It also has a class feature that allows you to have a wider use of your "knowledge: Engineering" skill, allowing you to sub it for a number of craft skills (Refunding points for those you chose to apply to it). It also has Mods you can add to your inventions, giving them special abilities like allowing your Thundershot rifle do Fire Damage or allowing the chemical blast from the Belcher cannon to do ongoing acid damage.
A new thread would be good.
I like the class, BTW.
Yeah, I'm thinking that's what I'll do for next week is start a new fresh post with some new updates. What did you like about the class by the way? Anything you didn't care for?
Thunderscape has a class like this called the "Steamwright". It works around using inventions which have a number of uses per day equal to the builders 3+int modifier (Except for a few more permanent inventions like the Steam-Vehicle). It also has a "Firepower" class feature that adds extra d8's of damage whenever you use a weaponized invention. It also has a class feature that allows you to have a wider use of your "knowledge: Engineering" skill, allowing you to sub it for a number of craft skills (Refunding points for those you chose to apply to it). It also has Mods you can add to your inventions, giving them special abilities like allowing your Thundershot rifle do Fire Damage or allowing the chemical blast from the Belcher cannon to do ongoing acid damage.
Never heard of Thunderscape but I'll see about checking it out. However, I've got the class mechanics and abilities down. I'm more or less just balancing numbers and trying to balance archetypes now.
Well, I pretty much liked everything about it, but there is a huge overload of stuff to choose from at every level. It seems like it would get confusing to bookkeep for.
Well, I pretty much liked everything about it, but there is a huge overload of stuff to choose from at every level. It seems like it would get confusing to bookkeep for.
It's not really. It just reads that way till you get a feel for it.
You get 1 new amplification per level. Amplifications are basically new spells. So, you get 1 new spell per level. A lot of other spellcasters get 2.
Then you either get a new minor gadget or a new upgrade. The biggest problem here is familiarizing yourself with those two lists and what the stuff on them does. I use a standard pathfinder character sheet and I just write the one I pick up under special abilities. The big rule of thumb is that minor gadgets work mostly outside of combat and upgrades are primarily for combat.
Essentially you make two choices per level.
Every 4 levels you get a damage upgrade to your gadgeteer's gun shots. That's essentially like a sneak attack upgrade.
The biggest hurdle is just understanding the basic functions of the class since it doesn't work like a lot of other classes. Once you get the basics down it's smooth sailing. Honestly I feel like it's way more easy to use than something like the Magus.
In that case, why not just list Amplifications as a first-level ability and say that you gain a new one every level? It feels like it's clogging up the list for no good reason.
In that case, why not just list Amplifications as a first-level ability and say that you gain a new one every level? It feels like it's clogging up the list for no good reason.
That....is an excellent point. When I made the list I was just writing everything down so I didn't miss anything. The first few iterations of the class didn't have a lot of stuff so I listed the amplifications to fill up empty space. As I added stuff and it evolved I just left them there as a reminder more or less.
You also don't get an amplification at first level. They start at second, but that's just me splitting hairs. When I get some free time later I'll try and do that to clean up the list. Honestly I was just afraid that new people wouldn't remember the new amplification each level, but I suppose everyone remembers their new spells for their wizard each level so I'm worrying for nothing.
I've been sick for the last couple weeks. Slowed me down a lot. However I've had a lot of time to plot and plan. I've got some updates incoming. As soon as I feel up to it that is.