|
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die. Unless otherwise noted, damage to your ability scores is healed at the rate of 1 per day to each ability score that has been damaged. Ability damage can be healed through the use of spells, such as lesser restoration.
...
Strength: Damage to your Strength score causes you to take penalties on Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, and weapon damage rolls (if they rely on Strength). The penalty also applies to your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Small or larger) and your Combat Maneuver Defense.
Reading there, we see that penalties to Strength apply to the statistics listed, and in the list carrying capacity is not present. Therefore we know that ability score damage (and penalties, because they work like damage, see below) do not lower carrying capacity.
As for the dangers of being subsequently poisoned...
Some spells and abilities cause you to take an ability penalty for a limited amount of time. While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1.
Emphasis mine. To reduce the score to 0, you would need to take ability damage (not penalty + damage) equal to your Strength score. The penalty can't play any part in making you unconscious because a penalty can never reduce your ability score below 1.
|
Just a point about clothing encumbrance
I can't back this up with a link to the rule in the PRD, but this is how Hero Labs with the PFS setting does it. I know Hero Labs isn't perfect, but I'm guessing if this was an error, it would have been corrected years ago.
|
|
Well, at least this thread will spawn a couple additional topics at our next GM happy hour.
That was a Living Greyhawk rule which some people incorrectly assume applies to PFS. (apparently including Herolab)
Its actually from the 3.5e Player's Handbook, page 131, under the Clothing header. That's probably why its such a common mistake in PFRPG; it was part of the rules on which PFRPG was based.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That was a Living Greyhawk rule which some people incorrectly assume applies to PFS. (apparently including Herolab)Just a point about clothing encumbrance
** spoiler omitted **
It was a 3.5 core rule that, for some reason i can't tell, didn't carry over.
Now my characters have an excuse to be naked. My 5 strength kitsune swashbuckler relies on fur for modesty...
|
|
** spoiler omitted **...
Now, for some reason, you don't have any way to remove the penalty in the party, and you are in an adventure that won't allow any way to go to where you could get a cure, so you have to continue on with your Int and Char at scores of 1.
During a later encounter, despite your being at the back of the party, some nasty creature attacks you with a poisonous bite, which you fail the Fort save for, and does, say, 1d3 Int damage each round for 6 rounds.
So, on the first round, do you rule that the person with the Int penalty now has two tracks of Intelligence reduction? "You have a Int Penalty from that earlier feeblemind, but that doesn't count against your Int for this Int damage from the viper, you'll need to track that separately, now." Or does that first Int damage drop them, effectively, to a 0 Int, and they are unconscious?
Or use an Extended ray of enfeeblement, and something else during the same encounter, which bites the enfeebled PC during the encounter, and they start taking Str damage from the second source?
|
|
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
FEEBLEMIND
School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level sorcerer/wizard 5
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a handful of clay, crystal, or glass spheres)
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target one creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates; see text; Spell Resistance yes
Target creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores each drop to 1. The affected creature is unable to use Intelligence- or Charisma-based skills, cast spells, understand language, or communicate coherently. Still, it knows who its friends are and can follow them and even protect them. The subject remains in this state until a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell is used to cancel the effect of the feeblemind. A creature that can cast arcane spells, such as a sorcerer or a wizard, takes a –4 penalty on its saving throw.
Reading feeblemind, we notice that it doesn't apply a penalty to Intelligence or Charisma; it reduces them to 1. That may seem like the same thing but in game rules, because Ability Score Penalty is a defined term, those are very different. We already have the definition of ability score damage from my previous post, but for completeness' sake:
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die. Unless otherwise noted, damage to your ability scores is healed at the rate of 1 per day to each ability score that has been damaged. Ability damage can be healed through the use of spells, such as lesser restoration.
So, in your example, our unlucky feebleminded PC now has an Intelligence score of 1 and 1d3 points of Intelligence damage. No matter the result of the die roll, he or she is in a coma.
The last paragraph regarding an Empowered ray of enfeeblement is a little more open ended. If I understand you correctly you want me to substitute the ray of enfeeblement for feeblemind in the previous example, and have the poison deal Strength damage? In that case, we need to take a look at ray of enfeeblement:
RAY OF ENFEEBLEMENT
School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect ray
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Fortitude half; Spell Resistance yes
A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Strength equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject's Strength score cannot drop below 1. A successful Fortitude save reduces this penalty by half. This penalty does not stack with itself. Apply the highest penalty instead.
Here, unlike in feeblemind, we are dealing with an ability score penalty. To review:
Some spells and abilities cause you to take an ability penalty for a limited amount of time. While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1.
So, if some unfortunate soul were to suffer a ray of enfeeblement for, lets say, 9 points of Strength penalty (an average roll on 1d8+5, rounded down) and later be bitten/stung/touched for 1d3 points of Strength damage the character would have a cumulative -5 to -6 penalty to all listed rolls modified by Strength, found on Core Rulebook p. 555. However, unless the poison damage alone was sufficient to meet or exceed their Strength score he or she would still be conscious and functional; as seen above, an ability score penalty cannot cause a player to fall unconscious.
These two negative conditions do need to be tracked individually; they are different things. In the same way you track nonlethal damage and damage separately you need to track ability score damage, ability score penalties, and ability score drain individually; they are healed by different things and have different effects on the character, though some of their penalties are cumulative.
Make sense? Am I answering the right question, especially with the ray of enfeeblement part? I wasn't entirely clear on the question there, but I didn't just want to ignore it entirely because ray of enfeeblement is distinctly different from feeblemind.
