So I have toyed with the idea of playing this game for a while. I will probably have plenty of time to toy with it too because I really only want to play the game with Adventure Paths I have already ran or played in. (Which is a seriously low number for now.)
Anyway, my question is really about the replay ability of the game.
Can you simply play the game over and over and have it be different and fun each time?
Is it more fun to not know the plot of the AP arc, or does that really not matter?
How many times have you played a game all the way through to the end of the story?
So, right now you can only play up to Adventure Deck 4: Fortress of the Stone Giants. Decks 5 & 6 come out later this spring.
I've played with my wife 4 characters through the end of Deck 4, solo played 3 characters into Deck 4, am in a group that meets monthly and is still on Deck 1: Burnt Offerings, in a group with some others that has only just started the "Base Adventure" which comes sort of before the adventure path, and just started another group of 4 with my wife while we wait for deck 5.
So obviously, I get a lot of replay fun out of it. I really enjoy being different characters, and even trying out both roles for each character. Yes, the villains are the same, but there is some stuff different from one "campaign" to the other.
1. Different party sizes make the game work differently. So I've got groups of 6, 4, and 3 going. And they all have different challenges.
2. Different party make up makes the game work differently. My first group with my wife has no Divine spell caster. Sajan took Drunken Master role largely to be able to recharge Potion of Healing and other potions to act as sort of a secondary caster.
3. Other than the villains and henchman, the other cards in the locations are random. Sure they are the same number of weapons and monsters at the Farm House each time, but the exact monsters and weapons vary.
4. The villain and henchman are at random unknown locations each time. Sometimes they are near the top, sometimes they are near the bottom. That effects the difficulty of each scenario, so what felt like a cake walk one time might feel like a gauntlet the next. And even when I do hit the henchmen high in the deck, I often get greedy and want to acquire boons.
I've never played Pathfinder RPG, so I can't answer the question about not knowing the plot of the AP arc, other than to say it doesn't matter to me.
But I love to play and replay this. And to play it with different people too. So I, for one, think it has lots of replay value.
What makes the game different each time is mostly the randomness of the card draws and the different combinations of characters that your group chooses to play.
While I definitely agree that the game has good replayability, I wonder if that will last once the entire AP is released. It might, or the unknown/surprise value of the new cards being gone might make replaying it seem a bit less fun. I'm not sure. I can say that at this point I've started up several different groups with the game.
I don't really think the plot of the AP arc matters as much with the card game. There's flavor text telling the story but the game is much more of a card game with some rpg elements than a rpg that you play with cards, in my opinion. I wouldn't worry about the plot, it might matter a little if you played this THEN the RotR RPG as maybe some of the flavor text / card abilities might give away plot elements. But, if you played RotR first, I don't think your experience with the card game would change much. Most of the people I've played with have barely paid attention to the "story", even experienced roleplayers. The card game is much more about acquiring/defeating cards, building decks and making strategic play decisions in the game.
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Your mileage may vary. I find the various scenarios, the gradual evolution of a player's decks, and the thrill of multiplayer exploration and looting to be really fun. Doing it all over again with a different character is a lot more fun...and the Skull & Shackles base set promises a whole new crop of characters with which to run through Rise of the Runelords, adding new dimensions of re-playability.
There are also a decent number of rare cards which you may never see during a single run-through of the adventure path. It's fun to go through and hit those rare cards, gain that rare loot, make different choices, and so forth.
The plot doesn't really matter...that's fine by me. Other people seem more bothered by that. In the Runelords AP, many of the scenarios are differentiated one from another in subtly important ways through different villains / henchmen, different scenario-wide conditions, different locations in the mix, etc.
Some seem to think this isn't enough of a difference, that the scenarios are too "same-y." I don't tend to take that view or be bothered by this idea myself, but I can't say that it's an argument without merit. The differences are small and gradual, and it's a bit like watching the waves lapping the shoreline and effacing footprints, sandcastles, etc. - it tends to happen a bit gradually, and you have to kind of stick with it for a while to notice the difference. This game rewards patience over time.
Ultimately, like most games in any format and genre, whether or not you like it is going to be a matter of personal taste - but the rather breakaway popularity of the game might, I would think, indicate that there could be a better than even chance that you may enjoy it if you enjoy board games / card games.
As a side opinion, regardless of how replayable you find the out-of-the-box campaign, the game itself is as infinitely replayable as the community or yourself is at creating fun and interesting new heroes, scenarios, adventures, and adventure paths.
Coming up with interesting scenario objectives and mechanics that may differ from those found in the official campaign can expand your replayability of the game quite a bit.
Thanks for some low down feedback. Hawk moon, I was under the impression that each scenario could be played in a single sitting (1-2 hours). However something you said led me to believe that it might take longer than that per scenario.
So what have been the longest and shortest scenarios you have played so far?
Having read parts of the rpg-Version of Rise of the Runelords (I don't own a copy so I have to read those of other people) I got the following Impression:
Knowing the Adventure will give you a better understanding for some design descisions or why some cards where made.
(for example why attack on Sandpoint has the Blessings Deck reduced to 25 or where the two charmed red Dragons come from)
While this is not important to enjoy the game I appreciate this extra Layer of care that went in the design-process.
On the other hand knowing the Card game before the Adventure will show you the Direction the Adventure will take, but certain connections just can't be made in the limited Frame of the cardgame. So there will be still Surprises but not as much as going in blind.
For replayability, I see it like many others: maybe you won't replay RotR, but you have a box full of Cards and a community to run an almost endless amount of different Advenures and Campaigns.
With the core classes I see certain patterns emerge at the midpoint, so variation seems to be more about team-composition then individual characters, but this might change after the final chapter when more informed experimenting is possible.
At the moment I don't do a lot of replays, since taking apart and reconstructing 6 Characters is quite a piece of work. I guess this might change too after the final chapter, when we don't have to reconstruct a team one month later for the next box.
Personaly I plan at least one more solo run as soon as I can play with a Witch. (which made the impressive jump to my second-favorite Class as soon as I saw the Rules)
Finally I want to adress a complaint I heard from some reviewers that this isn't a product for roleplayers.
First, my 20 something years of playing and mastering various rpgs disagree.
Second, this is not an rpg. It is more like a light game one can play on a less organized base, more like a "regular" board game.
Added since you gave a new Question, while I was typing.
I still don't know how long I play on average. I tried to record the duration multiple times but forgot half way through the game.
The Box says around 90 minutes and i feel for pure gametime that might be a good number.
My shortest succesfull game was probably under 1 hour with only a little over 10 rounds, while my longest game went somwhere in the direction of 2 hours (both with 6 Characters). Playing first time with my group, and explaining all the rules, took an entire evening with preperations and wrap up, but this time will shorten with more sessions played
I feel, that a lot of time goes into setup and rebuilding characters after the adventure, which can be reduced with a little bit of preperation.
As far as replay goes, this game has quite a bit, as there is a large (if not quite infinite) variation in experience between characters, cards found in locations (which are also random) and powers taken. While I've solo played through part 4 multiple times (each time with a different single character), I still find the game to be engaging and fun. That's about the best endorsement I can give for the game. after months of playing it and doing so quite a bit, the game is still a lot of fun!
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Playing the actual scenario often takes half an hour (on the low end) to 45 minutes or an hour - more, if you have new players that don't know the ropes. There is usually at least 15 minutes of setup time prior to this, especially if you thoroughly shuffle everything.
Hawkmoon and I noticed that, as you become more familiar with the cards, your scenarios go quicker and quicker. You no longer really read the cards - you simply see the title and images, and can quickly ascertain whether or not it's "worth it." He and I recently sat down to play (two-player, two-character) the first two scenarios of Burnt Offerings and blew through them both within an hour and a half or so, including setup time and everything. Playing with more characters (even though not with more players) also takes more time.
When we play with newer players (and we did so just recently - we added someone to our five-player group), they run across something like the Mace, read through all the powers on the Mace, and then check their hand to see if the Mace is better or worse than the weapons they currently have...and then try to remember what their options are for adding to the roll, and should they do it, and so forth. If you're a veteran player, you almost want to just cut in and say "it's not a good card; just let it go already!" - but you refrain because you want them to keep enjoying the game and playing with you, and they have to learn, too. Those of us who have played even three or four scenarios would, of course, quickly dismiss this as a Basic card, decide in very short order whether or not it's worth spending a blessing or something to get (probably not), and move on.
The other thing that tends to happen: when you see the cards in later Adventure Decks, the early cards tend to look really undesirable. Upon a second play-through, it's easy to simply try to finish the scenario early rather than choose not to close a location & pillage. You know that none of the really good cards are in there, so prolonging the time between now and when you can get to the "good stuff" isn't as appealing.
The more familiar you and the other players are with the game and cards, the faster things will go. With newer players, or players who don't play very often, scenarios could take up to 1.5 hours, with a half hour of deck culling and setup between sessions.
Backing up my good friend Calthaer here: You definitely play each Scenario in a single sitting. It would be cumbersome to box up the Scenario in the middle of play and store everything as if the scenario was "paused".
But you don't play each Adventure in a single sitting. So maybe the confusion with what I said was over some of the terminology. I'm not sure what you would call some of these things in the RPG, other than adventure path being the basic idea.
A Scenario is a single "play session". A group of Scenarios makes up an Adventure. Other than the introductory base Adventure (Perils of the Lost Coast), which has only 3 scenarios, all the other Adventures in RotR are made up of 5 Scenarios. A group of Adventures makes up an Adventure Path. Rise of the Runelords consists of 6 Adventures. When you buy the base set, it has the introductory Adventure, as well as the first Adventure of Rise of the Runelords, Burnt Offerings. Then you are buying each of the 5 other Adventures to complete the whole Adventure Path.
So you can (and really should) complete a scenario is a single sitting. I often strive to complete 2 if I can. But completing an Adventure in a single sitting would take serious time commitment.
Like Calthaer said, when people that have played a lot play, they can set up and play much quicker than people that are still learning the game. And also, the more people the longer it takes, even though there are no additional turns. That is because you have to take the time to communicate about what cards you could all potentially play as well as find out if they want a boon that you encounter but that you have no desire of doing anything extra to acquire (i.e. You are the rogue and encounter a sword. Maybe a the fighter would like it, and you both might be willing to use some cards to acquire it, but he'll have to tell you that he wants it first.) I started solo playing Ezren and I ran through all 3 Perils of the Lost Cost scenarios in about 2 hours, from setup to tear down. As Calthaer mentioned, only a few days before that we played with a group of guys that, other than us, have played maybe 10 scenarios tops and one guy that was playing for the first time. It took us 3+ hours to do 2 scenarios. So it plays faster the more familiar you are with it.
Thanks for all the great replies and feedback. You guys answered some questions that no FAQ or Review could.
I would like to get it. Seeing as these Adventure Arcs are two that I am excited for the most, I don't think I'll be getting it anytime soon.
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Oh well maybe this will help my group decide which AP to run after KM.
Thanks for making this topic, OP. I had been wanting to make it too, but I don't like starting new threads (don't ask me why, I can't answer why). I waited a long time before finally ordering the Base, Add-On, and Skinsaw the other day (they haven't arrived yet). My very small gaming group was brought to a screeching halt by the illness of one member, so I needed something Pathfindery to fill the gap and this had to be it.
I'm glad so many people make it sound like I didn't just toss my money away! Looking forward to at least 4 character play-throughs just on my own (but Lini first because Lini!).
Lini is super good.
Again, I've not played the Pathfinder RPG, but I don't think that having played PACG would necessarily spoil the RPG for me. Having played it, I'd know the names of the villains, but that is about it. There is just a bit of story on the adventure and scenario cards. But as someone who doesn't plan to play the RPG, I wish it were more (I've actually posed the idea that Paizo sell a PDF you could buy separately for those who want to fill in a bit more of the story). Now granted, may in the RPG there is some guy that you don't know if really a villain and if you played the card game and saw that he was one of the villains then you'd know when playing the RPG that he was an NPC not to be trusted. But I have no idea about that. As is, I can't really say I understand many of the motivations of the villains, just that they are in need of vanquishing.
Also, Apotheosis, you can definitely play a single character through the whole AP (it has been done repeatedly according to the designers), but some single characters will have an easier time with that than others. You can also "solo" play multiple characters and just control them all. The rulebook recommends 2 characters, but there is nothing stopping you from even doing 6, other than your own limitations. I have a hard time keeping more than 3 straight personally, but others report solo playing 6 characters.
And I most definitely don't think you threw your money away. This is the most enjoyable new thing I've discovered in the past 10 years at least.
I've been playing RPGs and tabletop games on and off for 30+ years. But I've never played the Pathfinder RPG. I don't think it's necessary, as I'm enjoying the "lite" RPG elements of the card game as-is. The interesting thing is, people who would NEVER want to play an RPG are playing and enjoying PACG! My sister, two friends wives, and another friend all play and enjoy the card game, but would never willingly play an RPG.
I think there's plenty of replay value. People can sit and play Monopoly for decades and still enjoy the game. This game has so much variation in the way it was designed (random decks, multiple characters with different skills, etc.) that it always seems fresh. We have the following groups running simultaneously (I've gotten good at setting up the game, characters, and adventure decks!)
6 player (my wife and I, with two other couples)
4 player (my wife and I with another couple)
3 player (my wife and I with one person from the 6-player group)
4 player (my wife and I with yet another couple)
And I intend to start either a solo campaign, or one with just my wife and I.
If you already know the AP story, than you know the arc of RotR card game. It's like revisiting an old friend, but as a different character. I have immensely enjoyed playing through it many times. I've played Final Fantasy 7 many, many times through. I know the story, but it's always fun trying out new combinations of characters.
This is one of the funnest (and relatively easy) games I've played in a long time. Right now, it IS my favorite table-top game. I can't wait to go through it again and with more people (other than my wife).
I'm 2/3 of the way through the Rise of the Runelords adventure path in the tabletop version of the game as a DM, so I can give you a perspective of someone who knows the plot and then played the card game.
I think you can do it in either order. The card game doesn't give enough details to really be plot spoilers to the rpg, and neither does the card game isn't ruined by any means by previous knowledge of the rpg.
For example, I'm playing through the beginning of the card game with my girlfriend, who joined the rpg group halfway through the adventure path. So I'm taking time to expand upon the small blurbs that accompany each card game session, telling her more backstory into why we're fighting these monsters and what happened when the tabletop group went through and did this in the rpg.
For me it's a nice look back on things that I've done in the rpg. At the same time, it's a brand new experience, since the card game is about gameplay rather than roleplay.
It's great, by the way. I play a lot of board games/card games, and this one is very high on my list of games I like.