So, here I am GMing RoW, and we come across a spell trap:
This got me wondering: if someone were to perceive a spell trap (which anyone can) how would they know the trigger?
How would they know the mechanism?
If they exceed the DC by 5, how would they know the outcome?
As regards Trapfinding and Disable Device, how does a Rogue disable a spell trap?
|
Speaking as a 13th level Rogue in PFS I often have GMs ask me that same question.
Characters with the trapfinding ability (like rogues) can disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
The Rogue isn't a spellcaster, and there are no rules for requiring Spellcraft or Knowledge (engineering) in order to use Disable Device on magical traps. All you really need is a set of Thieves Tools.
I think this just requires a little bit of metagaming.
I went ahead and spent an entire Chronicle's worth of gold on odds and ends just so I could justify my ability to disarm traps of all sorts, including an Adamantine Wire Saw, a Glass Cutter, Glue Paper, a Magnet, a Small Steel Mirror (for use against visual triggers), Universal Solvent, 500ft of String, a Drill, a Crowbar, and Sealing Wax, but it's really just for flavor.
See, that's what I discovered, as well. This would imply that there's something that is perceivable in spell traps, and something that you can disable. Yet there are no rules that I can find that tell me what those things are.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You use your thieves tools to scrape away at the rune that keeps the trap in place. :P
You use your thieves tools to scrape away at the rune that keeps the trap in place. :P
I like that! I was thinking something similar, like a scrap of paper or part of a scroll.
On a related note, a friend of mine and I made a flowchart for perceiving traps of all kinds.
Posted in the homebrew forum here.
|
|
To be honest, the Rogue is a somewhat underpowered class already (though I love mine, don't get me wrong). To require them to do anything more than just "I rolled 36 for my Disable Device" would make it even tougher to play one.
Asking them to have ranks in Spellcraft, and the ability to cast Detect Magic, is a little rough.
Hopefully the player can come up with some fun ways to disarm magical traps, and the GM can come up with some fun challenges, and everyone can enjoy the game together.
But all you really need is a good die roll.
To be honest, the Rogue is a somewhat underpowered class already (though I love mine, don't get me wrong). To require them to do anything more than just "I rolled 36 for my Disable Device" would make it even tougher to play one.
Asking them to have ranks in Spellcraft, and the ability to cast Detect Magic, is a little rough.
Hopefully the player can come up with some fun ways to disarm magical traps, and the GM can come up with some fun challenges, and everyone can enjoy the game together.
But all you really need is a good die roll.
Oh definitely!
I wouldn't want to take anything away from the rogue, just find out if there's any more RaW for spell traps that I might have missed. The rules are just really...bare.
Anyone else want to take a shot at this one?
The one thing that bugs me is that to disarm a magical trap you NEED trap finding. No other class can disarm a magical trap other than those that can gain access to the trap finding ability. so a sorcerer (barring things like dispel magic and the like) cannot even undo a magical trap.
By the rules the rogue can disable the trap. The flavor for how it happens is up to the GM. The symbol traps dont get a special pass to not allow the rogue to disable them.
Agreed however the mechanical traps can be disabled by anyone with a high enough 'Perception' to see it and a high enough 'Disable Device' to disarm it. What I'm saying is that its kind of a bummer that only the rogue with 'Trapfinding' can disable a magical trap.
Parties with no Rouge will have to huddle behind a tower shield and hope for the best or hope the local Sorcerer or Wizard has dispel magic on them and can counter the trap as it goes off.
The one thing that bugs me is that to disarm a magical trap you NEED trap finding. No other class can disarm a magical trap other than those that can gain access to the trap finding ability. so a sorcerer (barring things like dispel magic and the like) cannot even undo a magical trap.
Which is why a sorcerer has, you know, dispel magic and the like. : )
|
I've had a couple of long discussions about this with a friend while trying to hammer out the balance between Disable Device and common sense-engineering.
There are two basic approaches to traps. One is the Old School method (OS), the other the Find/Remove Traps (FRT) method.
OS dates from a time when there was no Perception ability. Players asked questions and the DM described the environment. Players had to be perceptive and probably should bring some 10ft poles to probe for traps. When a trap was discovered you'd fiddle around trying to engineer some way to disable or bypass the trap. You might need to make some skill rolls for this. Essentially though, the burden lay on the GM to actually understand how the trap worked and the players to figure it out and deal with it.
The FRT-method existed in 2nd ed but became prominent with 3.x with Perception and Disable Device. No longer does the player need to detect the trap from the GM's description and careful probing; now the burden is on the PC to detect it with Perception. And disabling uses a Disable Device check, rather than the player coming up with engineering ideas.
Both methods have pros and cons;
OS
+ Player ingenuity rewarded
+ More story/flavor
+ More flexible in handling unorthodox player solutions
- Metagamey; a smart non-rogue player can be better than a dumb rogue player
- Burdensome for the GM who needs to do much more preparation to research trap mechanics (actual mechanics, not game mechanics)
FRT
+ Players that aren't of a real-life technical bent can be effective in the trap bussiness
+ More fair with regards to class niche protection
+ Trap difficulty can be better quantified in game mechanics
+ Easier for the GM to use
- Less flexible towards common-sense solutions
- Less flavor
In any group of people playing either system, there's likely to be at least one person yearning they'd use the other system.
===
In regards to the OP's question: you just don't really know how you do it. Your character knows things you don't. That's why you have a mystery box with unspeakable trapfinding tools.
The game system doesn't require a rogue's player to understand how his PC disables traps. Likewise, it doesn't require a wizard's player to be deeply schooled in metaphysics or a cleric's player to have a solid grounding in theology. So it's not really an unfair advantage.