Seeking PFS Brawler Build advice

[Xzaral]

So I'm trying to build a Brawler for PFS, and I've come to the realization I have no idea what I'm doing.

I've been doing the research, and this is what I'm seeing right now. Note I'll be applying two GM Chronicles to is, so it will have 2XP, if that helps any.

Race: Human (I did consider Angelkin Aasimar).

Str 14+2
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 10

Featwise would be Belier's Bite and Combat Expertise. I figure by taking Combat Expertise early it would open up a bunch of the Combat Maneuver feats when using my Brawler ability. And Belier's bite just seemed too good to pass up.

My plan for advancement is to go for Tiger Style, so I'll be maxing Intimidate.

One thing I'm worried about is not being effective without Power Attack, plus my strength is only a 16 to start. I think Belier's Bite will help to make up for that, but still a concern.

I plan for the following
lvl 2 - WF Unarmed
lvl 3 - Tiger Style
lvl 5 - WS Unarmed

From here not sure yet. Also considered Boar's style, but wasn't sure how good that would be either.

So really looking for any suggestions on how to go from here.

[The Shaman]

I'm not really sold on combat expertise, unless you really want to sink resources into the specific maneuvers it allows (disarm/trip and a few others). Remember, not all improved maneuver feats require combat expertise. In your case, I would definitely go for power attack and cornugon smash as soon as possible - if you are already maxing intimidate, it can help you make more use of it.

I'd go for more strength if possible (perhaps 15+2 so you can get 18 at level 4) and if you are human I would consider something to boost your will save.

[Xzaral]

I'm not well versed in the combat maneuver feats, so I'll go through those. I was mostly going combat expertise for the options it seems to open up, but now I'll take another look.

I just looked at cornugon smash. I like it but won't have the intimidate until lvl 6. But I do like it!

Was thinking on taking a trait for will saves anyway. That's definitely a weak spot right now.

[XMorsX]

Beliers Bite is not worth it, because the bleed do not stack. Maybe you could take it at 2nd lvl and retrain it at 5th, when it will be lackluster.

Start with 18 Str at least, and take Dragon Style and eventually Dragon Ferocity. Drop Int at 13 if it is needed (or 12 and add one at 4th lvl), although I suggest to dump Cha down to 7. Of course you also need Power Attack in the mix, so you may need to forgo Belier's Bite.

Also, a brawler do not qualify for fighter-only bonus feats. It is a shame really, but the bonus feat description lacks the wording that the Swashbuckler dexcription has to enable this.

The maneuver training feature of the brawler is going to be taken full advantage only if you invest in dirty trick, as this is the only maneuver that scales respectably to the high lvls. Also, in the low lvls trip is great, especially in PFS. Both maneuvers have as prereq combat expertise and 13 Int, so I do not think that you should dump Int.

So with all these considered, I would probably go like this:

Human

Traits: Quain Martial Artist, Bred for War

STR 18 (+1 at 8th and 12th lvl)
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12 (+1 at 4th lvl)
WIS 12
CHA 7

1 Power Attack, Weapon Focus (IUS)
2 Belier's Bite (bonus)
3 Dragon Style
4 Combat Expertise
5 Improved Trip, Vicious Stomp (bonus), retrain Belier's Bite for Combat Reflexes
6
7 Greater Trip
8 Stunning Fist (bonus)
9 Dragon Ferocity
10
11 Improved Dirty Trick, Quick Dirty Trick (bonus)
12

EDIT: The bralwer do qualify for fighter feats, my mistake. It has just different wording thatn the Swasbuckler.

[XMorsX]

I can no longer edit the above post, so I re-post.

The above build is illegal, Combat expertise cannot be taken at 4th lvl. I removed dragon ferocity and its feat chain, as well as the dirty trick feats. I added the greater versions of weap. foc. /spec., as well as Pin Down, it is such a great feat for locking-down the enemies. Boar Style is a filler, if you have any better idea go ahead. It is not a bad feat though, certainly much better than Belier's Bite, and they do not stack.

Human

Traits: Quain Martial Artist, Bred for War

STR 18 (+1 at 8th and 12th lvl)
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12 (+1 at 4th lvl)
WIS 12
CHA 7

1 Power Attack, Weapon Focus (IUS)
2 Belier's Bite (bonus)
3 Combat Reflexes
4
5 Combat Expertise, Improved Trip (bonus), retrain Belier's Bite for Vicious Stomp
6
7 Greater Trip
8 Weapon Specialization (IUS) (bonus)
9 Greater Weapon Focus (IUS)
10
11 Pin Down, Boar Style (bonus)
12

The reason I insist on trip feats is that in PFS most enemies are humanoids, making trip highly effective.

[Xzaral]

I think I must misunderstand how Belier's Bite works, though it honestly felt a little strong to me. The way I understood, it inflicts 1d4 damage when you hit, then deals 1d4 bleed damage each round until healed. It sounds as though this is incorrect, and is only 1d4 damage at the start of the opponents round until healed after looking at some information on it. I can see now how it wouldn't be as good as some others.

I like the tripping idea, and with those feats it looks highly effective. I'm going to look at this one a bit more in depth.

[XMorsX]

Xzaral wrote:

I think I must misunderstand how Belier's Bite works, though it honestly felt a little strong to me. The way I understood, it inflicts 1d4 damage when you hit, then deals 1d4 bleed damage each round until healed. It sounds as though this is incorrect, and is only 1d4 damage at the start of the opponents round until healed after looking at some information on it. I can see now how it wouldn't be as good as some others.

I like the tripping idea, and with those feats it looks highly effective. I'm going to look at this one a bit more in depth.

Bleeding effects do not stack unless they specifically say so, like the bleeding critical feat.

With Vicious Stomp and Greater Trip you trip and then hit the enemy twice, making it a great tactic vs enemies susceptible to trip. And you can use your temporary feats in order to master maneuvers that are situatuonaly useful, like Improved Sunder + Gretaer Sunder or Improved Disarm + Break Guard (requires leninet GM, but it should work) (+ Greater Disarm).

And when maneuvers fail, you still have solid attack and damage bonus for damaging flurries, thanks to power attack + the weapon focuses + specializtions + boar style.

After you take Pin Down, tou will also not worry about enemies withdrawing and negating your flurries.

[Gwen Smith]

If you want to make an Intimidate build, you should look at the Intimidating Prowess: this lets you add your Strength bonus to Intimidate in addition to your Charisma mod. Also, do not tank your Charisma on an Intimidate build: you're starting off at -2 for your primary skill. And try to play/GM the scenario Attack on the Kingdom of the Impossible. :-)

Personally, in PFS I put my main stat at 17 at level 1 and bump it to 18 at level 4. The constant availability of magic items make buffing your stats really easy, and I can always use those extra 3 build points somewhere else. Since you can't count on a balanced party in PFS, it's not a bad idea to have 1 main trick and at least 1 backup trick. You never know when your brawler Intimidate build might end up as the party face because you're the only one at the table with a positive modifier in any social skill...

[Xzaral]

Hints! Interesting, very interesting. Maybe I'll run an adventure this PBP gameday now....

I'll look over the options. It's a hard decision. The trip idea would be pretty good, but I like the idea of an Intimidate build. I suppose I need to figure out who the character is a bit and go from there then.

[TGMaxMaxer]

Just so you know, if you want to dump int down to 10, you can. The latest notes on the brawler say that they count as int 13 for the purpose of combat maneuver pre-reqs.

Unless you just want those extra skillpoints, you don't have to have it that high, and that frees up a couple more points for stats.

Stats: Str 17 (All increases) Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 8 (possibly Cha 7 wis 12)

Combat Expertise, Power attack, WF, trip, Weapon Spec(unarmed) for the first 5 feats.

Use the feat you can select as a choice to get either viscious stomp or boar style, depending on the enemy at the moment. Remember, that 2d6 bleed bypasses DR, once you get it on at low levels it can really help.

Brawling Light armor (4kgold) gets you another +2 hit/damage around level 4. As well, AoMF 4k and str belt 4k are going to be your big purchases.

[XMorsX]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

Just so you know, if you want to dump int down to 10, you can. The latest notes on the brawler say that they count as int 13 for the purpose of combat maneuver pre-reqs.

It is a really great ruling.

I remembered noticing it somewhere, but I do not remember where. Care to post me the link?

[XMorsX]

Xzaral wrote:

Hints! Interesting, very interesting. Maybe I'll run an adventure this PBP gameday now....

I'll look over the options. It's a hard decision. The trip idea would be pretty good, but I like the idea of an Intimidate build. I suppose I need to figure out who the character is a bit and go from there then.

Intimidating requires a decent Cha, or Int with a trait, both of which should be dump stats. You could base it off Wisdom with a 1 or 2 lvl dip in inquisitor with the conversion inquisition, but then it is probably better to play an Inquisitor instead.

I suggest to play on your strenghts and avoid intimidating, instead focusing on maneuvers and unarmed damage.

[Xzaral]

Here's a link

The problem is this link at the end of the page

So I believe the Revised ACG Playtest is the official PFS document for now until the book comes out. I looked and couldn't find anything to change that opinion.

EDIT: Actually, just found out that it's in the Additional Resources. So yes, I don't need the Int!