Removing Nyrissa (Spoilers!)


Kingmaker


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm a huge , epic, massive fan of the Kingmaker adventure path for Pathfinder. I think it's one of Paizo's best products ever, in fact.

I do take exception to part 6. Nyrissa, the fey queen, didn't really appear to do much until chapter 5, and it seems like she might be written out... though then the conclusion might not be as fun.

I just feel that she changes the tone quite a bit.

What do you think? Is she integral? If I didn't want to use her, how might I edit or change the story? Has this already been answered elsewhere?


6 people marked this as a favorite.

First and foremost, what she does do is very behind the scenes, in information that is - as written - only really available to the GM. The players really don't have access to the information in any reliable way until Chapter Five. This is one of Kingmaker's few glaring flaws, IMO, and the one thing that drags down or hampers an otherwise near-perfect AP.

There's two ways you can handle this.

One is to play up her participation in the earlier chapters. Make it a bit more obvious that there is a powerful fey behind some of the things that keep happening (Stag Lord, King Hargulka, the Giant Owlbear, some of the stuff with the Tiger Lords, and Irovetti) and slowly drop additional hints to the players - hints that aren't written in the AP - to slowly reveal more about their hidden nemesis. The players being unable to find or reach Thousandbreaths will keep them from tromping off trying to kill her at the first opportunity, and if you give her some reason for not wanting to/not being able to leave it herself, that keeps away the nagging question of "Why doesn't she just squash them while they're weak?"

The one drawback of this method is that it's more work for the GM. This is the method I went with, though, so I'll link you to my thread where I've put up brainstorming and other ideas for help if you want it. You can also check out Dudemeister's many threads (one for each chapter, you can find them quick with a search) for further suggestions and recommendations.

The other is to remove her. Play down or remove the fey influence on the plot. Focus more strongly on the political interactions with Brevoy, with Pitax, and with the other neighboring regions. Very Game of Thrones, with the main part of the plot focusing on the kingdoms and their interactions and the associated alliances and conflicts and betrayals therein.

The downside of this is the loss of your as-written BBEG. This also requires some extra work by the GM, in that you'll need to come up with an appropriate campaign-ending challenge - be it a final boss battle on par with Nyrissa (say, Choral the Conqueror?) or something else equally dramatic, like a big war with Brevoy for the PCs' kingdom's independence.

Redcelt's got you covered on advice for that sort of game. It's not my cup of tea personally, I'm not a SOIAF fan, but for those who like it, I hear it's highly recommended.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

There are many, many threads about Ms. N, who kind of comes out of nowhere. The AP says she's behind almost everything, but if you run it by the book, players don't really learn about her until really, really late in the game.

Folks on this board have approached it from several angles. A few approaches:

* Orthos has created a complex faerie plotline.

* Redcelt transplanted A Game of Thrones to Brevoy.

* Pennywit (yours truly) hasn't directly introduced Nyrissa, but wishes to remind his players that faeries are a force to be reckoned with int he Stolen Lands.

My biggest suggestion: During Stolen Lands, throw a few things at your players, including Brevic politics and faerie battles. By the end of SL, you should have a sense for what your players want. At that point, you can decide whether to include Nyrissa or to steer the campaign in a more political direction.


How dare you ninja me, Orthos!

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

*hat tip*


I think it's not too hard to drop in more talk about Nyrissa before she appears. What I'm doing/have done so far:

1. Other faeries talk about her, although usually not directly by name. I came up with a bunch of titles that she's referred by, and have dropped those into conversations. The faeries know roughly what her aims are, and may support or be opposed to them.

2. Make her influence on the antagonists of each chapter more explicit. The Stag Lord is who he is because of Nyrissa, but there's absolutely no avenue for the players to discover this, for example. I'm giving each of her pawns a magic ring fashioned from her hair (as the cursed ring from chapter 2), that will give the PCs some clue that there is a unifying force out there.

3. Have Nyrissa visit the PCs or their friends in their dreams in an attempt to influence them. She shouldn't be super-obvious about it (i.e. doesn't appear as herself or use her own name), but if it happens to multiple people, they will probably realize there's someone behind it.

4. Have there be a few "test runs" of the magic used in book 6 in earlier chapters, as Nyrissa and her henchmen iron out the kinks. Weak blooms, land being transposed to the First World, First World monsters appearing from nowhere, etc. As the PCs get more resources, they might be able to trace the magic back to Nyrissa or her henchmen.

5. Introduce the children's book from book 6 earlier.

6. Have the PCs run into her lieutenants from book 6 earlier.

I do think, though, that if you wanted to dispose of the First World plot, that book 6 contains lots of ideas for different end games. Civil war in Brevoy and the return of Choral being the two most obvious ones.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My players first heard about the Green Queen in book 1 (from fey in the forest).

My players have known about the Green Eyed Lady as a threat since book 2. They've known about Nyrissa herself since book 4.

They know she's ramping up her plans now in book 5, but are dealing with Irovetti and hate that he's getting in the way of them putting up defenses against the fey threat.

If you're going to remove Nyrissa then, stay tuned for Irovetti's Clockwork Kingdom, it makes book 5 a perfectly cromulent finishing point.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Has anyone ran the campaign as Choral being behind it all? Or personally I was thinking of keeping the name Nyrissa and having her be a daughter or descendent, making plans to create the kingdom in the bottle thing, not as much directly evil, but as a way to isolate and eventually control and 'nurture' a nation she could then unleash when the time is right.


My main issue isn't some BBEG being behind it all, it's the weird interplanar stuff. I've run Kingmaker once 'straight' and it was fun but i'm trying it again with a little less magic.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
EccentricOwl wrote:
My main issue isn't some BBEG being behind it all, it's the weird interplanar stuff. I've run Kingmaker once 'straight' and it was fun but i'm trying it again with a little less magic.

In that case, just really play up the Irovetti angle. He's going to be the final boss the players face. If you excise book 6, everything can be run just the same. Irovetti funds Hargulka's Monster Kingdom, Irovetti's agents awaken Vordecai when they try to steal a potent artifact etc.

If the PC kingdom is the protagonist, Pitax is the antagonist. Sound of a Thousand Screams is an amazing adventure, but has no place in a "low-magic" kingmaker.


Yeah, I can't help you sadly. Low-magic is very very much not my thing.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

What if you tried another angle? Tone down the magic, and bring in gunslingers? Eliminate Nyrissa, make Irovetti (or Daggermark) the Big Bad ... and have Kingmaker in the Old West!

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Kingmaker / Removing Nyrissa (Spoilers!) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Kingmaker