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My mother is out of town, and my sister had some friends over. One of the guys snuck into my room while I was sleeping and kissed me.
I didn't wake, which is really good for his health.
Now I honestly don't know what to do. On one side, I feel like pressing charges, because, whatever anyone said, it's basically rape, but considering my country, he wouldn't fare well, so I'd be basically destroying someone's life because they are attracted to men, and decided to pull a prank.
Any insights?
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Just let it go.
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Just let it go.
Mostly, I agree with David M Mallon, but I think that more communication would bring about a better resolution.
It wouldn't hurt to communicate to him that you view his actions as a violation of your person. You are offended by his actions in this "incident." You can let him know that his actions were essentially rape, however, you are offering fogiveness and a handshake promise that he won't do this again even as a prank/dare.
I think that could go a long way further to teach him about appropriate interpersonal conduct than legal action ever could.
That's my opinion, for what it's worth.
If you were a girl, it would be differnt. I'd suggest decking him. Then laugh it off.
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Was the guy drunk or something, or was he in full mental capacity to make informed decisions?
If he was drunk, I agree that you should let it go, with a warning that this is the very last time anything like this happens.
If he wasn't, give him the talk of a lifetime - threaten with legal action, but don't actually pursue it. Just make sure he understand how messed up what he did was, and that it never happens again.
All this, of course, assuming no severe damage was caused to you. Will you be able to resume your everyday life normally? 3 years from now, will this still bother you? If you are mostly OK, it's not worth to go through the hustle of legal action. It's a costly, unpleasant, time consuming, and life changing path for everyone involved - probably him more than you, given that as you said, this might be a stain for a lifetime.
So let me ask you something, if a girl kissed you while you were asleep, would you even be thinking about suing her?
Having different sexual taste than this man doesn't entitle you to treat him like a criminal for kissing you. I find your reaction really homophobic, even if from what I can understand you're living in a country in which homophobia is common place.
Like the others said, talk to him if you're gonna see him again or let it go, but don't act like a homophobic jerk by reporting him to the police, even if I understand you're disgusted with what he did.
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So let me ask you something, if a girl kissed you while you were asleep, would you even be thinking about suing her?
Having different sexual taste than this man doesn't entitle you to treat him like a criminal for kissing you. I find your reaction really homophobic, even if from what I can understand you're living in a country in which homophobia is common place.
Like the others said, talk to him if you're gonna see him again or let it go, but don't act like a homophobic jerk by reporting him to the police, even if I understand you're disgusted with what he did.
No.
If Hama is much more repulsed by the idea of a guy kissing him than a girl, that's every bit his right, and there's nothing homophobic about it. You can have no problem with the existence, lifestyle or presence of homosexuals in the world, and even your near environment, and still be disgusted by the idea of being kissed by a man.
I mean, your claim is kind of absurd if you'll think about it for more than 3 seconds. What if someone will say, "I'd much rather be forced to sleep with a woman than a dolphin."?
Is that someone a dolphin hater? absolutely not, it's simply that his sexual tendencies permit some things while rejecting others. It really is that simple.
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Wow.
If this were a woman that this happened to (and the culprit was male) would you all be giving his this same advice?
And NOT wanting to be kissed by a gay guy (if the guy in question even IS gay...)homophobic now? REALLY?
*Shakes Head*
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Wow.
If this were a woman that this happened to (and the culprit was male) would you all be giving his this same advice?
Yes. I don't even know for sure that Hama is a man, actually, though it seems like he is. But his sex/gender/whatever is irrelevant here. Another human has crossed the boundary and performed a sexual offence that makes Hama uncomfortable. To me it seems that it's small enough to not be worth going to court to, because involving the law has huge consequences that might eclipse the original problem easily. It's not about him being either male or female.
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Also it isn't basically rape....if you think it is basically rape you don't understand what rape is.
This is a pretty homophobic post. I think the best way to handle it is like a mature and open minded adult. I would explain to him that you do not appreciate it and that it is not a welcome advance and he should refrain from doing anything of the sort in the future or you will be forced to take more substantial action.
Also it is not rape, it is nothing like rape, it's not even in the same country as rape....I really can't emphasize enough how this is nothing like rape.
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Also it is not rape, it is nothing like rape, it's not even in the same country as rape....I really can't emphasize enough how this is nothing like rape.
Speaking of country, let's check the definition of rape in the U.S, shall we? this is as close as we can get to a uniform definition:
There is, however, one universal definition of rape throughout the United States Company and in the NBA care's foundation in the United States Uniform Code of Military Justice [Title 10, Subtitle A, Chapter 47X, Section 920, Article 120], which defines rape as:
“ (a) Rape.— Any person subject to this chapter who commits a sexual act upon another person by —
(1) using unlawful force against that other person;
(2) using force causing or likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm to any person;
(3) threatening or placing that other person in fear that any person will be subjected to death, grievous bodily harm, or kidnapping;
(4) first rendering that other person unconscious; or
(5) administering to that other person by force or threat of force, or without the knowledge or consent of that person, a drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby substantially impairing the ability of that other person to appraise or control conduct;
is guilty of rape and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.[5]
So, unless my reading comprehension abilities fail me, that guy committed a sexual act on the unconscious Hama, which is in the definition here.
It is, also, common sense.
Now I agree that what happened is not a a severe case, which is why it's probably smarter to let it slide with relative ease (kind of like how it's smarter not to start involving insurance companies in very minor car accidents that only scrap the paint or something, to avoid involving the police in the whole thing and not have your accident on a record), but it most certainly falls within the definition of rape.
Can we bear in mind that different countries customs come into play here. In some countries, a kiss can be seen as a friendly form of greeting. In others, it's a very intimate act. As far as I'm concerned, kissing someone against their will is borderline sexual assault, no matter what genders are involved.
Lets have a bit of respect for the person for whom it was far more than a friendly gesture and not start yelling "homophobe!" at them. It also cheapens that term when there are other people (*coughcoughatleasthalftheArizonasenatecough*) in this world actually deserving of that label.
My mother is out of town, and my sister had some friends over. One of the guys snuck into my room while I was sleeping and kissed me.
I didn't wake, which is really good for his health.
Now I honestly don't know what to do. On one side, I feel like pressing charges, because, whatever anyone said, it's basically rape, but considering my country, he wouldn't fare well, so I'd be basically destroying someone's life because they are attracted to men, and decided to pull a prank.Any insights?
You didn't wake up when he kissed you, right? Then if someone hadn't told you it had happened, would it have affected your life in any significant way?
The answer is probably, "No," so any legal actions you take against this guy are bound to be petty, which'll wrap you up in a legal battle you have no real reason to be fighting and could end up ruining the other guy's life, as you mentioned.
If anything I would be more upset with my sisters for letting their friend do that to me in the first place; allowing a friend to grossly violate their sibling's personal space is also a huge violation of family trust in my book. I would have a chat with them and if they're being unreasonable then talk to your parents about it. But give your sisters a chance to make amends first.
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blah blah blah...a bunch of stuff cut out....
The OP is from Serbia and I am unfamiliar with Serbian culture and this may be the legal definition of rape in Serbia (at least more clear cut then it is in the US) and it may be something that is grossly unforgivable within that cultural foundation. With this in mind....
I would recommend talking to your sister about it and anyone you really trust to be able to keep a secret and to not judge you for advice. I hate to say to throw someone under the bus but I also respect cultures that are not my own and I will not give advice on a situation from the point of view of a completely different culture as the OP....the way I judge this situation is too far removed from the OPs world view.
The OP has every right to view the world through the lense of his Culture
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This is a pretty homophobic post.
Please explain this. I'm not being snarky or trying to bait you here. Seriously, please explain this.
I'm a straight guy. I'm sleeping. Some guy kisses me when I'm unaware or in any state where I can simply say "Please don't."
Upon waking and finding out about it Im upset and kinda feel violated.
Because hey, YOU HAVE NO IDEA if I have a history of being molested as a child or a young adult. But because I feel violated and want to take action I'm a homophobe?
So yeah, AGAIN please explain to me how I'm a homophobe for reacting the way I (hypothetically) would.
I'd let it go with a warning. I've been in this exact situation before, and that's all that was required.
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To my knowledge, it's sexual assault. Not cool. Inform him that this was not a prank, and that he crossed the line. He could open himself up to considerable legal action if you so choose, and essentially ruin his life. This is regardless of the gender/sexual identity/physical sex of the people involved.
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This is a pretty homophobic post.
Please explain this. I'm not being snarky or trying to bait you here. Seriously, please explain this.
I'm a straight guy. I'm sleeping. Some guy kisses me when I'm unaware or in any state where I can simply say "Please don't."
Upon waking and finding out about it Im upset and kinda feel violated.
Because hey, YOU HAVE NO IDEA if I have a history of being molested as a child or a young adult. But because I feel violated and want to take action I'm a homophobe?
So yeah, AGAIN please explain to me how I'm a homophobe for reacting the way I (hypothetically) would.
You're right, I don't have any idea if someone has been sexually molested and what kind of psychological impact that could have to a situation.
And upon further consideration I am not sure if it is homophobic as much as it is a serious reaction to a what from my United States Citizen Homosexual Male point of view is a relatively minor thing. (As I am not a Serbian Heterosexual Male I cannot state how it would look through that lens).
I am not thinking about this as a guy kissed another guy as much as I am not thinking about it as "If I was sleeping and a woman came in and kissed me while I was sleeping, what would I do and how I would I feel?"
Well to be honest I would be upset. I have not been sexually molested or violated at any point in my life. But I do like my boundaries to be respected just as I try to respect the boundaries of others.
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I am curious what your response to the situation would have been if it had been a girl you found attractive (assuming you are in fact a heterosexual male).
Not a fair comparison, of course. It's like asking me if I consider it theft when a friend of mine comes uninvited into my house and makes himself a cup of coffee (I don't). It would be, however, if that was a stranger.
Once someone has taken the liberty of making someone else's decision for them - for example, by kissing them in their sleep - they surrender the right to decide if what happened was right or wrong. If Bob kissed Alice in her sleep, without her permission, it's now 100% up to her to decide if that was a crime or not. By stealing her agency, he later squandered his own.
For the record, I did have an event that I consider to be sexual harassment happen to me - a girl I didn't find attractive and didn't know very well was commenting on my looks and stroking my chest, right in front of my girlfriend and some of my good friends. It was sexual by nature and made me feel very uncomfortable. But has it been with a girl I liked and in different circumstances, that very same thing would not be anywhere near a sexual harassment case.
Now, if what you are trying to say is that what happened should be called "sexual assault" or something, rather then be called "rape"... fine, so long as the two of us can agree that what happened was an attack with a sexual nature to it (those tend to be very unsettling, even in mild cases). If you are trying to say that no sexual offence took place, then I firmly disagree.
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To my knowledge, it's sexual assault. Not cool. Inform him that this was not a prank, and that he crossed the line. He could open himself up to considerable legal action if you so choose, and essentially ruin his life. This is regardless of the gender/sexual identity/physical sex of the people involved.
THANK YOU.
This is a pretty homophobic post.
Please explain this. I'm not being snarky or trying to bait you here. Seriously, please explain this.
I'm a straight guy. I'm sleeping. Some guy kisses me when I'm unaware or in any state where I can simply say "Please don't."
Upon waking and finding out about it Im upset and kinda feel violated.
Because hey, YOU HAVE NO IDEA if I have a history of being molested as a child or a young adult. But because I feel violated and want to take action I'm a homophobe?
So yeah, AGAIN please explain to me how I'm a homophobe for reacting the way I (hypothetically) would.
You're right, I don't have any idea if someone has been sexually molested and what kind of psychological impact that could have to a situation.
And upon further consideration I am not sure if it is homophobic as much as it is a serious reaction to a what from my United States Citizen Homosexual Male point of view is a relatively minor thing. (As I am not a Serbian Heterosexual Male I cannot state how it would look through that lens).
I am not thinking about this as a guy kissed another guy as much as I am not thinking about it as "If I was sleeping and a woman came in and kissed me while I was sleeping, what would I do and how I would I feel?"
Well to be honest I would be upset. I have not been sexually molested or violated at any point in my life. But I do like my boundaries to be respected just as I try to respect the boundaries of others.
Thank you for this.
What you brought up about boundaries is what kinda rubbed me the wrong way about some of the responses about this. I personally know women AND men who have been sexually assaulted and you never know what sort of triggers are going to make them react in a certain way.
While I do believe that you cant walk on eggshells around people all of the time I do believe that violation of someone's space, especially when they are in no condition to tell you "no" is a problem.
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This is a pretty homophobic post.
Please explain this. I'm not being snarky or trying to bait you here. Seriously, please explain this.
I'm a straight guy. I'm sleeping. Some guy kisses me when I'm unaware or in any state where I can simply say "Please don't."
Upon waking and finding out about it Im upset and kinda feel violated.
Because hey, YOU HAVE NO IDEA if I have a history of being molested as a child or a young adult. But because I feel violated and want to take action I'm a homophobe?
So yeah, AGAIN please explain to me how I'm a homophobe for reacting the way I (hypothetically) would.
I am not thinking about this as a guy kissed another guy as much as I am not thinking about it as "If I was sleeping and a woman came in and kissed me while I was sleeping, what would I do and how I would I feel?"
Even if Hama is your neighbor, it's perfectly reasonable that he would react more strongly than you to certain situations - that's how the human race works, there's variation between people.
But hearing what you consider to be an overreaction, and just assuming that it stems from some blind, moronic outdated hatred? I don't know what your life experience as a homosexual is, but it appears to me that now YOU are overreacting. It's not homophobic at the least to be very disturbed by the notion of being kissed, as you were sleeping, by someone that you really don't want to be kissed by.
To slip your earlier question to me - would you have assumed that Hama hates women if his story involved a girl rather than a guy? "I'm a straight male, was kissed by a girl in my sleep, that's really not cool, I'm considering a lawsuit". Would you have thought someone who writes this hates women?
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This is a pretty homophobic post.
Please explain this. I'm not being snarky or trying to bait you here. Seriously, please explain this.
I'm a straight guy. I'm sleeping. Some guy kisses me when I'm unaware or in any state where I can simply say "Please don't."
Upon waking and finding out about it Im upset and kinda feel violated.
Because hey, YOU HAVE NO IDEA if I have a history of being molested as a child or a young adult. But because I feel violated and want to take action I'm a homophobe?
So yeah, AGAIN please explain to me how I'm a homophobe for reacting the way I (hypothetically) would.
You're right, I don't have any idea if someone has been sexually molested and what kind of psychological impact that could have to a situation.
And upon further consideration I am not sure if it is homophobic as much as it is a serious reaction to a what from my United States Citizen Homosexual Male point of view is a relatively minor thing. (As I am not a Serbian Heterosexual Male I cannot state how it would look through that lens).
I am not thinking about this as a guy kissed another guy as much as I am not thinking about it as "If I was sleeping and a woman came in and kissed me while I was sleeping, what would I do and how I would I feel?"
Well to be honest I would be upset. I have not been sexually molested or violated at any point in my life. But I do like my boundaries to be respected just as I try to respect the boundaries of others.
Thank you for this.
What you brought up about boundaries is what kinda rubbed me the wrong way about some of the responses about this. I personally know women AND men who have been sexually assaulted and you never know what sort of triggers are going to make them react in a certain way.
While I do believe that you cant walk on eggshells around people all of the time I do believe that violation of someone's space, especially when they are in no...
Agreed and I apologize for my over raction to the situation...Honestly, I have been accused of hitting on guys I would take a vow of celibacy before considering doing anything with and live in an area that is not particularly gay friendly... I have developed a natural over reaction to anything involving a negative view of gay people regardless of circumstance, it is not fair and I do try to be aware of it.
I do think that the situation calls for action and while I think it can be resolved without legal action, if legal action is the course that Hama decides to take it is within his rights. The "Kisser" in this situation defeintely violated boundaries.
Seriously?!? Someone was kisses without their permission and is upset and because it just happened to be a guy that makes him homophobic?
I see you've already sorta retracted that statement. I'm just tired of the slightest thing being used as "evidence" or homophobia/racism/sexism in general.
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I'm just tired of the slightest thing being used as "evidence" or homophobia/racism/sexism in general.
Which is understandable. Terrible things like sexism/homophobia/racism and stuff happen so often, in so many different degrees of severity, and at some many levels that often people of minority groups become programmed to react strongly to anything they perceive as a threat to group integrity (aka anything with a negative condemnation). Just because I am aware of the phenomena does not mean that I am immune to the phenomena.
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Honestly I wish that wasn't the case, but humanity sucks. Come on our draconic overlords!!
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First. I am not homophobic. I am actually very outspoken about gay rights and I treat people as people. I don't really care about anyone's sexual preference as long as they are not shoving it in my face. And then I will probably react with "Oh, OK" if someone insistently keeps mentioning that they are gay/trans/etc.
Now, it isn't illegal in Serbia to be gay or to be outspoken about gay rights. But there have been instances where courts have treated LGBT people more harshly, just because they are what they are (it has been investigated and people responsible have been punished accordingly). While the Serbian public may be completely OK with LGBT, majority of it's people aren't, mostly due to ingrained bigotry, indoctrination from the crib and generally being hateful of everything different.
Also the reason why last year's and the year before pride parades were forbidden. Because the state couldn't guarantee their safety. There were talks of molotovs and rocks and stuff. And there are not enough cops to protect them all and still protect the city of 2 million people.
To answer another question, if it were a female, I would still feel violated. Sexual assault is sexual assault. The same as one of my friends sued a woman who opened the door naked (he delivers pizzas), and made a move on him. Why did he do it? Because it made him horribly uncomfortable, he is married and loves his wife very much.
Ergo, circumstances are very important.
If a girl I was really attracted to did that, i probably wouldn't mind too much, but I would still be wierded out, because why the hell would I do that to her unless we were dating at the time?
Which is understandable. Terrible things like sexism/homophobia/racism and stuff happen so often, in so many different degrees of severity, and at some many levels that often people of minority groups become programmed to react strongly to anything they perceive as a threat to group integrity (aka anything with a negative condemnation). Just because I am aware of the phenomena does not mean that I am immune to the phenomena.
I never understood that knee jerk reaction to interpret EVERYTHING as an offense. That can only lead to alienation even from well-meaning respectful people.
Anyway, yeah, not gonna press charges, it would be a gross overreaction, plus I don't wanna ruin someone's life over a single kiss.
My sister didn't know that he did it until after he did it. Not her fault. Next time I see him, he and I are gonna have a long talk about personal boundaries.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm a guy. 100% straight. I had it proven by a very frustrated male masseuse who had to call in a female colleague. Long story.
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I never understood that knee jerk reaction to interpret EVERYTHING as an offense. That can only lead to alienation even from well-meaning respectful people.
Well, I assume the world looks and feels different from the perspective of someone on the receiving end of the bigotry, as mswbear confessed to be. I guess it's an instinct developed from experience - a dog that was mistreated as a puppy would shy away even from someone who proves again and again they only want to feed and pet the dog. And humans tend to show similar behavior. I try not to judge someone who's life might be ruled by the hatred of others. I mean, one of my best friends was kicked out of his house by his religious mother for being gay. I know it can be rough, and I can see why that would cause people to overreact.
Also it is not rape, it is nothing like rape, it's not even in the same country as rape....I really can't emphasize enough how this is nothing like rape.
Speaking of country, let's check the definition of rape in the U.S, shall we? this is as close as we can get to a uniform definition:
There is, however, one universal definition of rape throughout the United States Company and in the NBA care's foundation in the United States Uniform Code of Military Justice [Title 10, Subtitle A, Chapter 47X, Section 920, Article 120], which defines rape as:
“ (a) Rape.— Any person subject to this chapter who commits a sexual act upon another person by —
(1) using unlawful force against that other person;
(2) using force causing or likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm to any person;
(3) threatening or placing that other person in fear that any person will be subjected to death, grievous bodily harm, or kidnapping;
(4) first rendering that other person unconscious; or
(5) administering to that other person by force or threat of force, or without the knowledge or consent of that person, a drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby substantially impairing the ability of that other person to appraise or control conduct;
is guilty of rape and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.[5]So, unless my reading comprehension abilities fail me, that guy committed a sexual act on the unconscious Hama, which is in the definition here.
It is, also, common sense.
Now I agree that what happened is not a a severe case, which is why it's probably smarter to let it slide with relative ease (kind of like how it's smarter not to start involving insurance companies in very minor car accidents that only scrap the paint or something, to avoid involving the police in the whole thing and not have your accident on a record), but it most certainly falls within the definition of rape.
Maybe I missed part of it but how does this example fit exactly? The other person did not render Hama unconscious, Hama went to sleep on his own I assumed.
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You didn't wake up when he kissed you, right? Then if someone hadn't told you it had happened, would it have affected your life in any significant way?
Seriously? So, if a men rapes a women and the womend do not notice whe was raped (she was drunk, or drug or someting) then there is no problem?
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Maybe I missed part of it but how does this example fit exactly? The other person did not render Hama unconscious, Hama went to sleep on his own I assumed.
"Oh, no, it wasn't rape. She went to sleep on her own, so it was perfectly fine for me to f*** her."
Doooesn't quite work.Also:
(5) administering to that other person by force or threat of force, or without the knowledge or consent of that person, a drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby substantially impairing the ability of that other person to appraise or control conduct;
is guilty of rape and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.[5]
Maybe I missed part of it but how does this example fit exactly? The other person did not render Hama unconscious, Hama went to sleep on his own I assumed."Oh, no, it wasn't rape. She went to sleep on her own, so it was perfectly fine for me to f*** her."
Doooesn't quite work.Also:
(5) administering to that other person by force or threat of force, or without the knowledge or consent of that person, a drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby substantially impairing the ability of that other person to appraise or control conduct;
is guilty of rape and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.[5]
Did you read what you posted? Did the other person use a drug, intoxicant, or similiar substance?
Did you read what you posted? Did the other person use a drug, intoxicant, or similiar substance?Maybe I missed part of it but how does this example fit exactly? The other person did not render Hama unconscious, Hama went to sleep on his own I assumed."Oh, no, it wasn't rape. She went to sleep on her own, so it was perfectly fine for me to f*** her."
Doooesn't quite work.Also:
(5) administering to that other person by force or threat of force, or without the knowledge or consent of that person, a drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby substantially impairing the ability of that other person to appraise or control conduct;
is guilty of rape and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.[5]
what if the person get drumk by him/her-self?
would it be ok for the other person to take advantage of the situation?
Did you read what you posted? Did the other person use a drug, intoxicant, or similiar substance?Maybe I missed part of it but how does this example fit exactly? The other person did not render Hama unconscious, Hama went to sleep on his own I assumed."Oh, no, it wasn't rape. She went to sleep on her own, so it was perfectly fine for me to f*** her."
Doooesn't quite work.Also:
(5) administering to that other person by force or threat of force, or without the knowledge or consent of that person, a drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby substantially impairing the ability of that other person to appraise or control conduct;
is guilty of rape and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.[5]what if the person get drumk by him/her-self?
would it be ok for the other person to take advantage of the situation?
Just to nip this in the bud, I am not saying it is okay to fool around with people while they are asleep. I was merely pointing out that Hama's story doesn't meet the definition of rape as provided by Lord Snow.