Part Two: Everything you know about Crimea is wrong(-er)
I patiently await the follow-up article "Everything you know about western media is wrong."
Yeah, I particularly liked this part:
"The only media that seem willing to acknowledge this are the finance sites. They can’t afford to let jingoism affect their bets, so they’ve been surprisingly clear-headed, saying outright that there’s nothing the West can do…
"'Analysts from Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Bank of America Corp. and Morgan Stanley have said Europe probably won’t back sanctions that limit flows of Russia’s oil and gas. European members of the Paris-based International Energy Agency imported 32 percent of their raw crude oil, fuels and gas-based chemical feedstocks from Russia in 2012.'
"It’s a sad day for America when you have to get your honest news from the pigs at Goldman Sachs, B of A, and Morgan Stanley. Kind of like Clarice having to walk through a gauntlet of tossed cum to hear Hannibal Lecter’s take on the latest serial killer."
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
... the “good oligarch” Petro Poroshenko, a.k.a. “The Chocolate King” is the seventh-richest man in Ukraine, worth about $1 billion.
Someone please tell me I was not the only one to read that, and imagine him in a purple top hat and tails, surrounded by Oompah-Loompahs.
For some perspective on what has been happening in the Ukraine.
"Seriously,who writes these scripts?!"
Real question is,who sponsors this channel?)They didn't say anything new to me,but they said a lot.
In other news:
These guys can't even organize provocation right!
You see,if you want a military conflict,you use not one sniper but 50,and not today,but on 16th march.
What actually happened:one sniper fired first on lookout tower within Ukraine base and then on SDF.
And,i heard,was "taken down" afterwards.
if the Russian Ukraine east joins Russia it will take most of ukraine's minerals with it
What's FAR more important,at least to Russia,is these are very industrialized provinces.
Minerals....minerals are easy.Hell,with Crimea went most of gas and oil.
I'm sorry, I know I should be focusing on this really serious issue and stuff, but all I keep thinking is...
"Only yellowdingo would title the thread for discussing a potential all-out war between Russia and Ukraine as 'The ukraine thingy'."
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Russian lawmakers ask President Obama to impose sanctions on them all
How much pressure do you think Obama and the West are going to put on Israel after this Golan Heights thingy?
How much pressure do you think Obama and the West are going to put on Israel after this Golan Heights thingy?
About as much as after air raid that crippled Syria's ASsM batteries.
|
I'm sorry, I know I should be focusing on this really serious issue and stuff, but all I keep thinking is...
"Only yellowdingo would title the thread for discussing a potential all-out war between Russia and Ukraine as 'The ukraine thingy'."
I love how you call this a potential all-out war between Russia and Ukraine.
I love how you call this a potential all-out war between Russia and Ukraine.
Can you even go to war with country that has no military?
In other news.:PM of Crimea reserved the right to use self-defence forces to protect russian population of east Ukraine.Fun stuff is,according to what passes for international law for the moment,that will be Ukraine's internal conflict.
No-one can interfere.
PARTIZAN: where everyone is a soldier.
But those are not muslim militants.They actually value their life.
I think.This is why this whole operation is more or less bloodless.
assist at Ukraine's request
But they can't send peacekeepers.That requires resolution of UN.
And that "protect russian population of east Ukraine" sounds like a pretext for taking more of Ukraine. We'll see.
Err.I do not think Russia wants Ukraine or something like that.
But loyal citizens,which identify themselves as russians-those are priceless.Whole Ukraine,as is,will be stupidly pricy,and i'm not talking about sanctions or something.
Problem is,of course,loyalty.
Russian tanks can be on the streets of Kiev within the hour,but this not only accomplishes nothing,it actually makes things worse.
If you really think that Putin's main concern is protecting ethnic Russian citizens in other countries, you've really swallowed the propaganda. It's a pretext and it's what he wants you to believe. I wouldn't believe it of any world leader. Realpolitik. There are always more practical reasons behind the stated ideals.
While we're at it, National Endowment for Democracy. A bit old, and doesn't mention Ukraine, but the picture's pretty clear.
Also, the party line came in from England: Crimea breaks away to join Russia
If you really think that Putin's main concern is protecting ethnic Russian citizens in other countries
I've never said that.
What Russia wants is more loyal russians(key is loyal),whatever the actual nationality,and key factories.Kharkov tank factory,whatever remains from original space industry,Antonov R&D,Nikolayev.The list goes on.
There's nothing legally
Of course there is.
A little thing like legally elected president.
The biggest loser here (IMO) is nuclear disarmament. Every country that is currently under pressure to disarm or halt nuclear programs is just going to point at the Ukraine. 'If they had nukes they wouldn't have been invaded.'
Subproduct of military nuclear program is peaceful nuclear program.
So that's not necessarily a bad thing.Exept North Korea,because they are really,really stupid.
One modern nuclear power plant can easily power the whole country(in their case)!
But noooo,nuclear weapons come first.
And they call themselves socialists!
I thought they already pointed at Iraq?
No idea how "legally elected president" relates to the Ukraine inviting foreign military assistance.
Constitution,mostly.They technically can't do that without a president,and president is....somewhere...in russia...wrestling bears?
Also,no-one will send military aid openly(weapons and supplies are fair game),because,you know, .08 was not that long ago.If Poland initiates some kind of referendum on reunification in western Ukraine,on the other hand,it will be something.
For my own personal delectation and to bookmark for later, all of Louis Proyect's posts on Ukraine.
Who's Louis Proyect? Oh, just a snobby cineaste and ultraleft sectarian whose blog I follow. He kinda ferrets out all the pro-Putin propaganda that finds its way into the Far Left, so I find him a useful read even when I disagree with him.
Particularly interesting to me:
A group of at least five men, including MP Igor Miroshnichenko from the nationalist Svoboda party, barged into the office of Oleksandr Panteleymonov then shouted at him and landed blows before forcing him to write the letter. They filmed the attack and posted it online. The video has received hundreds of thousands of hits.
Ironically, Miroshnichenko is a member of the new parliamentary committee on freedom of speech. He said afterwards he did not believe he had done anything wrong but was prepared to be investigated if necessary.
"As the interior minister, I am ready to organise all the required investigative efforts as soon as instructed by the general prosecutor," he wrote. Given that the prosecutor general is also a member of Svoboda, the incident could prove a key test for Ukraine's fledgling government, cobbled together in the aftermath of Yanukovych's flight from Kiev.
emphasis mine.
They filmed the attack and posted it online.
Is it even possible to be more stupid?
In other news:The most awesome of prosecutors on march 18 shootings
But to hell with kawai rupors of Kremlin propaganda,
We all know who really shot first
They filmed the attack and posted it online.Is it even possible to be more stupid?
If your goal is to spread terror it is a fine way to do it, just like public lynchings and similar.
If your goal is to spread terror it is a fine way to do it, just like public lynchings and similar.They filmed the attack and posted it online.Is it even possible to be more stupid?
Yes,but they not only spreading a terror,they spread unrest.
And that's playing straight into Russia's claws.
If your goal is to spread terror it is a fine way to do it, just like public lynchings and similar.They filmed the attack and posted it online.Is it even possible to be more stupid?
Yeah, that was my thought.
|
|
as west attacks Russia with sanctions, us diplomats revealed to have conspired to topple previous pro Russian president of Ukraine with a plan to put the few pro west politicians in government irrespective of the pro Russian populace and their elected representatives.
previous pro Russian president
He was not,actually,pro-russian.
Speaking of sanctions, today after work i'm going to the liquor store to buy a case of high-end russian vodka. I'm going to get a detailed reciept so that if russian goods are sanctioned, it will be ok for me to sell. (or just toast with my friends)
I wonder why Putin did not ask for a referendum in Crimea earlier, like when the previous president (the one who was given asylum by Putin) was in power in Ukraine ?
He couldn't. You can't ASK for that sort of thing(at least openly).
You can only accept it.You need loyal citizens,remember?They must think that it's their choice and idea.Whether or not it is is entirely different matter)
Also,failed state is fair game.Functioning,elected democracy-not so much.
Doesn't mean he couldn't tell his allies in the Crimean government to ask for him.
Yep.Isn't politics strange?
And "failed state" is a bit much for Ukraine.
Well,it qualifies for purposes of ninja'ing some territory)
I do not know what future holds,but i'll tell you this:even if Ukraine gets all natural gas it wants for free from Europe or whatever...there is still a little problem of literally over half of country's electricity supply coming from Soviet-type nuclear reactors...of which,AFAIK,Russia is literally the ONLY fuel supplier.And Ukraine can't pay for fuel.
How it is not a failed state in near future?
I wonder why Putin did not ask for a referendum in Crimea earlier, like when the previous president (the one who was given asylum by Putin) was in power in Ukraine ?
It would have been much simpler and a great way to respect the right to self-determination of the Crimean people, right ?
Well, I'm no George Kennan of Zbigniew whathisnamenow, but I'd guess he didn't ask before because the Russian-speaking Crimeans weren't all up in a tizzy due to a bunch of US and EU-backed Nazis overthrowing the government, chanting "Ukraine for Ukrainians!" and beaiting up Jews.
Colombia
Bogota mayor Gustavo Petro removed by president
Pretty unsexy story until you get to the end: "As an opposition senator, Mr Petro was a key player in uncovering a 2006 scandal that linked many politicians to far-right militias."
In other news:FUN stuff AKA loot.
The one and only in existance Bambuk(bamboo)-class command ship switched sides and joined BSF.
How much can cost the only ship of the class,and dedicated flagship to boot?( i think there are only three dedicated command ships in existence ATM)
This whole operation just paid for itself.
About....four? ships remain under Ukrainian flag in Crimea and all of them are blocked by...errr...blockship.
Sadly,the only modern frigate in Ukraine's fleet is in Odessa,but who cares?
Frigates cost,like,300 million?
Also,how much can cost 200 trained marines,50 fighter pilots and 80 SEAL-equivalents?
surrender the ship
That would be white flag.
Instead,appropriate was used.And yes,from what i know,most of the crew will serve from BSF from now on.What's the point of ship without trained crew?
And it's not looting,because,you know,declaration of independence specified that all former Ukraine property within CAR's borders becomes property of CAR.Just like was the case with Ukraine's own independence 25 years ago.(sadly,that kawai frigate was somewhere else.Which is why Ukraine still has a navy.Kinda.)
It's counting loot,which is a)something which every roleplayer appreciates and b)fun!
Also,MORE Kremlin-funded propaganda
Translation:from 18.000 military personnel in Crimea,only 2000 decided to continue serving in Ukrainian army/navy/whatelse.
|
surrender the shipThat would be white flag.
Instead,appropriate was used.And yes,from what i know,most of the crew will serve from BSF from now on.
What's the point of ship without trained crew?
And it's not looting,because,you know,declaration of independence specified that all former Ukraine property within CAR's borders becomes property of CAR.Just like was the case with Ukraine's own independence 25 years ago.(sadly,that kawai frigate was somewhere else.Which is why Ukraine still has a navy.Kinda.)
I did not know that Ukraine had seized the Russian installations, navy and army units when it became independent.
It's counting loot,which is a)something which every roleplayer appreciates and b)fun!
Also,MORE Kremlin-funded propaganda
Translation:from 18.000 military personnel in Crimea,only 2000 decided to continue serving in Ukrainian army/navy/whatelse.
I hope they did not count the Russian military personnel in the 18 000 :-))
Also, I guess that any who decided to continue serving Ukraine would be shown the door out of Crimea real soon. A great incentive for Crimean military personnel NOT to continue serving Ukraine, even if they wanted to.
I love how you call this a potential all-out war between Russia and Ukraine.I'm sorry, I know I should be focusing on this really serious issue and stuff, but all I keep thinking is...
"Only yellowdingo would title the thread for discussing a potential all-out war between Russia and Ukraine as 'The ukraine thingy'."
Like I said, I can't concentrate on the facts when the title's staring me in the face, all cutesy and improperly formatted.
I did not know that Ukraine had seized the Russian installations, navy and army units when it became independent.
How do you think they inherited third-largest nuclear arsenal and best army in Europe?
Fleet was splitted(and negotiations was VERY hot),but the rest...Something was bought back later,like half? the fleet of TU-160 strategic missile carriers.
I hope they did not count the Russian military personnel in the 18 000 :-))
Looks true to me.Crimea hosted Ukraine's primary naval base(up to and including combat dolphins),about half of airforce and 90+ percent of the fleet.I can believe in near-20k personnel,counting crews and support staff.
And yes,you cannot be a navy sailor in a country that has no navy.