My players, realizing that they have to pay their crew in plunder any time they stop at port to sell plunder have taken to, well, not selling their plunder very often.
They have decided to hoard it until they have a vast hoard (50 or so) then give their crew the one point the module expects them to receive.
How do I deter such behavior? I can't just say "mutiny" as the vast majority of the crew has long since been replaced by steadfastly loyal followers and cohorts (both the captain and his first mate have Leadership).
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm lucky enough to have a reasonable, non-antagonistic playing group, so all I'd have to do is say: "Look guys, don't abuse this loop hole. Play it fairly like you know you're supposed to." and that would solve it for me.
If that won't work for you, find out how much plunder their ship can actually hold and enforce that number. I don't have the book in front of me but I'm nearly certain 50 points of plunder is more than a ship can hold by quite a lot. I think the maximum number is more in the neighborhood of 20 points without alterations.
And, if they're hardnosed about it and you don't want to have a mutiny, have sailors abandoning them at port. No one is going to risk his life for free no matter how charismatic the boss is. They might be surprised to find out when they are ready to shove off, many sailors have melted away and they can't sail their ship without penalty if at all. If you really want to be hardnosed about it, enforce a penalty to the captain's diplomacy check to recruit new sailors because their previous disgruntled employees certainly talk about their treatment to others. If they get hard-up enough to have to press-gang people, mutiny should be back on the table for continued abuse at that point.
Bottom line is, playing like this isn't roleplaying a real piratical experience. It's metagaming and only considering the numbers and the loop holes.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As Shaun says, the longer the crew goes without getting paid, the more morale drops.
Risking your life while the boss sits on a growing pile of plunder will turn the most loyal follower to the mutiny side fairly fast.
You can start small, minor surliness and sloppy work, the longer they don't get paid, the more trouble builds.
It could end up with the Captain telling the crew to attack a ship, and the crew replying "You do it! We're not getting anything for it so why should we?"
DBH
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
We did away with the ruling of one plunder point every time you reach port. Its really excessive 1000gp seems a heck of a lot.
Best I have seen involves a bit of book keeping for the captain or QM. Rules are in fire as she bears. 1 gp per crew per day, officers pay is up to the captain.
As for not paying the crew with a vast hoard of 50 plunder? MMM how many ships do you have. A ship can't take that much cargo in its hold, I don't think anyway (I said between 10-12 on my groups ship)
Mutiny won't be automatic. Give the Captain a morale check every day the reach port and don't pay the crew (don't forget sailors need to stretch thier sea legs and will wont drink, women etc, if they don't get paid then how do they afford it? The crew will start the get restless if they don't get shore leave).
Do something as simple as a dip/intim/bluff check by the captain with a dc of 20? then for each day the crew don't get paid add 1 to the roll, if the captain fails the roll the crew become restless and are at a -1 to all rolls, every day until the captain pays them and he fails his roll and another -1. Once they reach -5 then a mutiny may happen.
Just and idea, but I do think the crew would get a little cheesed off if they are not getting paid on a regular basis.
They have nearly 9 ships I think, and what they can't carry they stow at Tidewater Rock, which they know to be an easily defensible position thanks to the module.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They have nearly 9 ships I think, and what they can't carry they stow at Tidewater Rock, which they know to be an easily defensible position thanks to the module.
This is better then my other PC/GM
The players wanted a more realistic game and so they divide all plunder/loot into a shares. Each pirate gets 1 share, officers 2, and captain 3.
The other players don't want to deviate from this, and my GM doesn't give extra loot to compensate, so we're all extremely poor, but boy oh boy do we have the most well paid crew ever. For example when we cashed in a large magic item (15,000 gold) and 10 points of plunder (10,000 gold) it was divided this way.
There are 25 crew, so there's 33 shares (2 extra for captain, 1 extra for each officer).
So our 25,000 gold reward was actually 1,500 for each PC except the captain who got 2,272 gold....
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They have nearly 9 ships I think, and what they can't carry they stow at Tidewater Rock, which they know to be an easily defensible position thanks to the module.
Well, if they have 9 ships, they're not aboard all of them. If they believe 9 separate crews will run their ships for free, you might surprise them by having some (most?) of the ships they're not aboard striking out on their own to get better deals for themselves. I find it unbelievable that primarily chaotic neutral PIRATES would give free labor to any boss. It's totally preposterous that they'd give free labor to an absentee boss. When the cat's away the rats are going to get PAID!
I'll reiterate, though, that the best answer to your problem is to talk with your players as adults and let them know they're stretching credibility with this tactic way past breaking. Unless your group is dysfunctional, I'm sure you can resolve this amicably. Good luck.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They have nearly 9 ships I think, and what they can't carry they stow at Tidewater Rock, which they know to be an easily defensible position thanks to the module.
Defensible against rot, rust, infestation,flood,fire and other misfortunes? Maybe the market for a good has become flooded while they were waiting and they can't get full value? I'd use a small calamity or two to dissuade them from hoarding.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
9 ships...at least 180 crew members (20 crew min and for each ship to function effeciantly you would need more crew), each ship needs a Captain and officers (navigator, first mate and cook min). So that means if you are using the plunder rules as payment and the fleet is docking at port you would need 9 plunder points(1 plunder per ship don't forget). If the other crew on the other ships are not getting paid then as far as I can see they would just say up yours and sod off. The more ships you have the more it will cost them to upkeep.
You need to be a little bit more ruthless with the crew I think, the players are getting away with way too much.
Most of the ships are stored in the harbor of Tidewater Rock. Those remaining that can't fit in the harbor patrol the surrounding waters protecting the Rock from possible incursions. In return, the vessels get the safety of being part of a large fleet and are otherwise largely free to do what they want.
Because of Tidewater Rock's great location, said ships are largely self-sustaining (since they can attack nearby merchant vessels and keep and divy up their own spoils as they see fit).
My players are not stupid. They've thought out a whole system of control--and not just control--but of making their fleet a "paradise for pirates" so to speak. The only crew they need worry about is that on their own flag ship, which again, are mostly loyal followers.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Seems like you want to run it your way and let the players dictate how the crew responds, which is fine if that's the way you want it.
If not change it up and let the crew start to have rumblings if they are away for extended periods of time. I would still drive it home to them if the flag ship is out and about the crew will get restless if they don't get paid whilst they are at sea.
You could if you wanted as well have a Captain or 2 decide that the loot at tidewater was too tempting, whilst the cats away and all that. They are pirates, whats to stop them grabbing the loot and sailing away with it whilst the flag ship is away? Surley not every single crew or officer is 100% loyal?
Just seems to me the players are having it a little too easy at the moment. Nothing wrong with that though, just shake it up a bit.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My players, realizing that they have to pay their crew in plunder any time they stop at port to sell plunder have taken to, well, not selling their plunder very often.
They have decided to hoard it until they have a vast hoard (50 or so) then give their crew the one point the module expects them to receive.
How do I deter such behavior? I can't just say "mutiny" as the vast majority of the crew has long since been replaced by steadfastly loyal followers and cohorts (both the captain and his first mate have Leadership).
-------------------
They have nearly 9 ships I think, and what they can't carry they stow at Tidewater Rock, which they know to be an easily defensible position thanks to the module.
===================
Most of the ships are stored in the harbor of Tidewater Rock. Those remaining that can't fit in the harbor patrol the surrounding waters protecting the Rock from possible incursions. In return, the vessels get the safety of being part of a large fleet and are otherwise largely free to do what they want.Because of Tidewater Rock's great location, said ships are largely self-sustaining (since they can attack nearby merchant vessels and keep and divy up their own spoils as they see fit).
My players are not stupid. They've thought out a whole system of control--and not just control--but of making their fleet a "paradise for pirates" so to speak. The only crew they need worry about is that on their own flag ship, which again, are mostly loyal followers.
So the 50 plunder they want to hoard is only from their ship?
And their ship is crewed by cohorts and followers?And they leave most of their plunder safe at base, guarded by the other ships (with npc captains)?
They may not be stupid, but IMO they may be taking pirate/"human" nature for granted. Remind them how they started out, press gang/mutiny/etc... and how unreliable pirates tend to be and how the general nature of pirates is greed. So...
I also like...whats to stop them grabbing the loot and sailing away with it whilst the flag ship is away? Surely not every single crew or officer is 100% loyal?
There are rules for this. Adjust their leadership scores for their reputation.
...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Our group just rented out the temple of calistria for the evening and moral went back up.
Our group just rented out the temple of calistria for the evening and moral went back up.
Now that is a good idea :)