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Backstory:
I played D&D in the 70s and 80s, and am now 45 and getting back into D&D to play with my kids. Tried 4ed for the past couple years and while my daughter and her friends loved it, I had to basically ignore half of the 4ed content to create a game experience that was more role playing and less tabletop gaming.
Then I recently found out about Pathfinder. I got the Beginner Box and within minutes the kids were able to make their own characters and were knee deep in that awesome world of imagination and creativity that I loved about D&D in the 70s/80s.
I've created some adventures for them, but would love to save some time and find an Adventure Path or set of modules that would take us through a year or so (we play every other week).
I bought the new Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path and it looks great, but before I start that I want some advice to make sure I've got the best for our group.
Here's what we are looking for:
+ They prefer story arcs and memorable NPCs over hack and slash.
+ I need a fair amount of sandbox since these kids will never stay on rails.
+ They like puzzles, mazes and traps. Solving mysteries and scavenger huts work well for them.
+ They use negotiation and charm as much as they use their weapons to get out of a bind.
Thanks for any input!
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It seems like I am recommending it a lot lately but I would suggest Curse of the Crimson Throne.
It's got a great plot. Korvosa is a pretty fleshed out city (if you get the City of Korvosa Guide) and the events that occur (at least in the first two books) can kinda happen at any time.
There also seem to be a fair number of opportunities to brook conversation, even with monsters.
Rise of the Runelords is also a great opening AP but the negotiation options seem a little less prevalent.
From personal experience if you want something sandboxy Carrion Crown is one of the last ones you should consider.
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COTCT is a good one.
Kingmaker is very sandbox, as a DM it pays you to read the whole thing and decide what changes you're going to make before setting your players loose.
It does have some great NPCs, and a lot of chances to use charm and negotiation skills, some good mazes and puzzle filled areas as well.
Just use the city and kingdom building rules from the Ultimate campaign book rather than the ones that come with Kingmaker.
DBH
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Hi there.
Another vote here for CotCT. Over midway through running this now (book 5), and having a blast. Of them all, current book (book 5) is probably the least that you would like though (don't want to give too much away, other than to say that it is a bit of a large dungeon crawl, with not as much opportunity for roleplaying as other pieces).
The early books are great, and I can't recommend 7-Days To The Grave enough. As the first book (and some of the later elements....) deal with the Shoanti, having characters from the area makes it interesting. In my group, I had a Shoanti brave who had been kidnapped and missed his chance to perform the rights of adulthood, and thus was regarded by all other Shoanti as still being a child. The fact that he was a 6' 6'' Barbarian warrior was beside the point! The story became (for a while) about his redemption in Shoanti society. Fun :-)
Cheers
Aiddar
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Skull and Shackles is written very well and makes gming a bit fun and from what I can gather is a blast to play in. But I will agree CotCT is really fun. One thing I've been doing to skull and shackles is changing certain npc's based on new content.
Thanks for all the replies. Looking at CotCT now!
I also looked at Kingmaker and start laughing to myself while considering this group of kids running a kingdom and waging wars. I might have to pick that up just to see what happens with this group.
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We are just about to finish CotCT (one more encounter left) and it is a great adventure path where you can do as much role-playing as you want. Even in part 5, there are lots of spooky "haunted house" type scenes that aren't just hack and slash, and some of the NPCs are happy to talk instead of fight (or before fighting :))
I expanded it a bit by introducing a couple of side quests with Ishani, and also ran Academy of Secrets. I also threw in Crypt of St Bethesda (one of the short adventures from AEG) at one point, as it was a good fit with an abandoned temple to Aroden.
It seems like I am recommending it a lot lately but I would suggest Curse of the Crimson Throne.
It's got a great plot. Korvosa is a pretty fleshed out city (if you get the City of Korvosa Guide) and the events that occur (at least in the first two books) can kinda happen at any time.
There also seem to be a fair number of opportunities to brook conversation, even with monsters.
Rise of the Runelords is also a great opening AP but the negotiation options seem a little less prevalent.
I will second this on all points. I recently got the Guide to Korvosa (£10 off ebay inc p&p! woot!) and it does a great job opening up the city for sandbox play. CoTCT is brilliant for roleplay, tons & tons of cool NPCs. It does need work; we just finished Book #1 and the author did not provide a viable timeline. Every time you finish a section, it ends with "Returning from X, Y happens!" - which would result in the whole thing happening in a couple days. But it actually needs several weeks to pass within book 1 to work properly, so as GM I eventually realised this and sketched out my own timeline to accommodate necessary time gaps.
Runelords has Sandpoint and the other settlements full of roleplaying opprtunities. If run properly I think there is tons of scope for roleplay, though not as consistently as CoTCT, but be careful not to run it as a linear rail shooter. Like most APs it needs a lot of GM input to run it properly open and sandboxy. One thing I'm doing in my new Runelords game is to encourage players to play Sandpoint natives, with the NPCs as their relatives - so far one PC is Mayor Deverin's nephew!
Likewise, with CoTCT I encouraged PCs to have pre-established links to major NPCs - see my CoTCT blog: http://smonscurseofthecrimsonthrone.blogspot.co.uk/2013_02_01_archive.html - I think this has helped a lot to ensure the PCs are tied in to Korvosa. I especially love PC Naglatha's background - the quarter-orc niece of Devargo Barvassi...
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Kingmaker is your best chance to run a sandbox campaign since there are very few time limits to anything and virtually unlimited chances to engage with NPCs. Out of any AP, it is the most easily customized, and if you run it, highly recommend jumping to the Kingmaker forum. There is a ton of user-generated content. By itself, Kingmaker is a frame that is ok. Enhanced, it's amazing.
KM is highly customizable, so you can throw in as many home-brewed or pilfered-from-other-adventures encounters as you want into the wilderness. The kingdom making is exciting at first, but it will become tedious after awhile, and with kids would put the kingdom on autopilot after awhile and simply roleplay encounters from the expanded lists of encounters you can find on the forums (the basic won't last long).
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Hey, Touc, can you link to the centaur material? My group is in the middle of RRR right now, and I'm starting to look ahead to VV.
Search Dudemeister's material, the below is a mix mostly of his creation and a bit of my own (note I renamed the "Nomen" tribe and made Nomen a derogatory two-legger term):
VV Modifications
Renamed “Simbani Tribe,” centaur trust can be earned. PCs begin with a score of 7 for 4 PCs, 6 for 5, and 5 for 6 PCs (Loathed).
Trust Score 0 = Angry Mob. The Centaurs drive the PCs out of their territory and attack and attempt to kill them on sight. (Diplomacy attitude: Hostile) The PCs will need to seek other means of finding the missing Varnholders. (Random Encounter chance increases by 40 % as tribe drives monsters at the players)
Trust Score 1-15 = Loathed. -6 penalty on Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate Checks against the Simbani Centaurs. Furthermore, a group of troublesome Centaurs will seek to sabotage the PCs attempts to win the trust of the tribe. (See Sabotage in the various Quest sections). (Diplomacy Attitude: Unfriendly) (Random Encounter Chance increases by 20% as Simbani dissidents send monsters to harry the PCs)
Trust Score 16-20 = Disliked. -3 Penalty to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate. Furthermore, a single centaur may seek to sabotage the PCs attempts to win trust among the tribe. (Diplomacy Attitude: Unfriendly) (Random Encounter Chance increases by 5%, as Danide ushers monsters towards the PCs).
Trust Score 21-25 = Neutral. The PCs suffer no penalty. At reaching this level the PCs gain the first real piece of information about Centaur history. (See Information Rewards). (Diplomacy Attitude: Indifferent)
Trust Score 26-30 = Liked. +2 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate. The PCs have earned their respect, and learn another valuable nugget of information from the Simbani Centaurs. (Diplomacy Attitude: Helpful)
Trust Score 31-35 = Trusted. +4 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate checks. The PCs gain enough information to seek out Vordekai’s Island if they wish, and can ask a single favor or boon from any named Centaur. (Diplomacy Attitude: Helpful)
Trust Score 36+ = Admired. +6 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate. The PCs can annex any hexes considered Simbani Territory (the Dunsward and the hills south of it) but must agree not to develop areas F, M, P, R, W, X, the hexes surrounding them are fair game though. (Diplomacy Attitude: Friendly)
Committing Crime in Simbani Territory: -3 Trust Points, -6 if it’s particularly violent
Killing Kankerata or The Black Roc of Talon Peak: -3 Trust Points
If a Centaur Dies: -1 Trust Point
Being Directly Responsible for a Centaur Death: -6 Trust Points
Each Month Vordekai is Active: -1 Trust Point
Each month the Diplomat, Warden and Leader, can each make a Diplomacy check to improve the Simbani’s Attitude, this represents a week of living among the Centaurs, attempting to earn their trust and getting to know the culture. Each successful Check to improve the Simbani’s Attitude instead garners 1 Trust point.
Completing Quests and Challenges:
There are a number of important members of the Simbani tribe, and some of them have quests and challenges the PCs may be able to help with. The following Quests from the front and Back Covers are given by Simbani Centaurs instead of the assumed villagers or visitors to the PC’s nation:
Forgotten History (Changes: Elenorik is a Centaur Bard attempting to chronicle the true history of the Centaurs of the Iobarian steps. An unusually bookish centaur, he is carries a small library of texts in his saddlebags in addition to the listed reward the party will also gain 4 trust points).
The Omelet King and Wanted: Manticores (Iosis Redmane is the tribal tattooist for the Simbani Centaurs, she wishes to create a potent tribal tattoo, but needs Manticore Quills (for the needle) and Yolk from the unfertilized egg of a Black Roc (for ink) (See Scaling Talon Peak for more details). For each of the tasks the PCs succeed in they gain 3 Trust Points). The PCs may also gain the normal “Omelet King” quest, this of course will make descending from Talon Peak that much more difficult.
Information Rewards:
Returning Skybolt to Aecora or Initial DC 34 Diplomacy check:
-The Varnhold Wars-
The bloody war between Varnhold and the Simbani tribe began within the first year of Varn’s attempt to build a town. This stunted Varn’s growth to the levels seen in the book, but also created a deep rift between the Centaurs and the “two legged kind”. As such the Simbani have no love of humanoids, believing them all to be expansionist fools who have no respect for the bounty of Moon Mother’s world.
Reaching Trust Score 21
PCs learn of some of the sites sacred to the Centaurs Areas F, R, N and Y.
Reaching Trust Score 26
See Varnhold Vanishing Page 34, Column 2, Paragraph 3 (Information relating to Vordekai). She finishes by saying: “There is a place you can go, to learn more. But it is secret, and taboo to the centaurs. The PCs must prove they are worthy of trust by the whole tribe.”
Reaching Trust Score 31
Aecora relates the locations of areas W, X and Z. She also talks about the “Valley of the Dead”. At this point Xamanthe has disappeared, either to impress the PCs or desperate to prove her own abilities if they have earned her enmity (See: the Kankerata Run, Changes to Area F, and Scaling Talon Peak).
Approaching the Centaurs
PCs are met with distrust and to “turn back the way they came”. PCs can attempt a Diplomacy check to get into the village, PCs who present Skybolt and offer to return it to the tribe gain a +5 bonus on the check (mostly negating the penalty for the low level of trust).
Approaching Aecora Silverfire and presenting her with the bow immediately nets the PCs 2 trust points. Aecora asks the PCs to sit, and she explains the difficulties between her people and Varnhold. She does so in order to relay the difficulty the young Centaurs will have in aiding the “two-legs” on their quest.
Aecora is approached by Danide Thunderhoof (Centaur Barbarian 6), who loudly proclaims that the PCs have run their little errand and have no place in the Dunsward, perhaps they should leave immediately. PCs can attempt a Diplomacy check, or Intimidate check against Danide in an effort to convey their peaceful intentions, or make her back down. Danide’s attitude is Hostile.
If PCs succeed Danide calms down and gives them a chance: “We are at a disagreement, in this tribe we have a task for dealing with disagreements. The Kankerata run. If the PCs wish to gain the trust of the Centaurs, then meet at the Blood Furrows when next the sky touches the Earth.” (Sunrise if it’s already night or Sunset if it’s already light). “Until then they can remain guests of the Centaurs.”
If the PCs used Diplomacy to get Danide to back down, they gain 1 trust point. They are invited to stay and rest in the guest house and have a meal of Centaur foods (flat bread, served with wild goat haggis, with mead to drink). The food is gamey and an acquired taste, but otherwise filling and hearty.
If the PCs used Intimidate then when they are resting up in the Guest House, Danide has her young rabble-rousers serve the PCs Haggis stuffed with Greendrop Mushrooms. Upon eating the meal PCs must make a DC 16 Fortitude save or be Sickened for 24 hours, any PC that fails must make a DC 14 Fortitude save in 12 hours or gain the Nauseated condition as they must deal with an upset stomach. A PC who inspects the food before eating it can make a DC 16 Craft (Alchemy), Knowledge (Nature) or Heal check to recognize the Greendrop Mushrooms and the threat they pose.
In any case after the PCs have had a chance to rest, heal and recover spells they are taken to the Kankerata Run.
Kankerata Run, Area M
A tradition among the Simbani tribe to settle disputes has been to participate in the Kankerata run, racing through the Blood Furrows and dodging the predations of the dangerous Bullette named Kankerata. The goal of the run is to race from one end of the run to the other, leaving bloody handprints upon the sacred stones that dot the run. To leave a print upon the stone the PC must cut themselves with a piercing or slashing weapon (taking 1d3 points of damage, this damage ignores damage reduction) – the entire process takes one standard action. A PC may spend a standard action binding the wound, or may allow the wound to bleed (dealing 1 point of damage to the PC on their turn every turn).
The first to complete the challenge is the “winner”, but simply participating in the run can earn PCs Trust Points.
Trust Points Rewards:
Completing the Run – +1 Point per PC
Completing the Run without using magic – +1 Point per PC
Winning the Run – +2 points.
Rescue Xamanthe in Cavern 7 – +2 points.
No PCs complete the Run: -4 Points
The Run
Danide and 3 regular centaurs (one of whom is Xamanthe) have Fort +3, Ref +6, Acrobatics +9, Climb +7, Per +7, +2 Str mod.
Chases: Base speed is 30’. For every 10 under this, -2 cumulative penalty. For every 10 above this, +2 bonus. Centaurs move at 50’, in encounters #3 and 4 they get no bonus.
• Roll initiative
• Move action to get through card, then standard to attempt task. Failure requires a redo. There are 2 obvious ways to resolve an obstacle. Marking the stones consumes a standard action for that turn.
• Can spend full round action trying to move 3 cards. Must beat BOTH obstacles.
o If beat one but fail other by 5 or less, move 1 card forward
o If beat one but fail other by over 5, no progress
o If fail both, mired somehow, lose next turn getting out of situation.
• Failing a check in a Kankerata space means the bulette attacks: bite +15 (2d8+11/19–20)
1. The Starting Line - A) Sprint Ahead (Fortitude DC 10) B) Slide down the hill (Acrobatics DC 15).
2. ~The Fallen Columns A) Leap the Stones (Acrobatics DC 20) B) Hidden Shortcut (Perception DC 25)
3. *Kankerata’s Pit A) Climb Down (Climb DC 10) B) Dive Down (Swim DC 15)
4. ~Pools of Harsh Reflections A) Avert Your Eyes (Reflex DC 15) B) Trust Your Instincts (Sense Motive DC 20)
5. ^Stalactite Cavern A) BATS! (Handle Animal DC 25) B) Beware Falling Rocks (Reflex DC 20) (In this cavern a Centaur attempts to slow the PCs by throwing a net on the first PC to arrive after them; hits touch AC +6 to cost them movement through cavern)
6. *~Kankerata’s Den A) Don’t Wake the Beast (Stealth DC 30) B) Scale the Ceiling (Climb DC 25)
7. ^ Collapsing Caverns A) Sprint for your Life! (Fortitude DC 15) B) Find Cover (Perception DC 20) (In this cavern, a Centaur attempts to collapse a cavern on top of a PC. Xamanthe gets caught up in the Collapse, takes up standard action to help).
8. ~Open Air A) Clear a Path in the Grass (Deal 15 Damage or 5 Fire) B) Climb the Hill (DC 10 Climb Check)
9. * Muddy Ravine A) Swim the Shallows (DC 15) B) Wade the Mud (Strength DC 10)
10. *~ Home Stretch A) Final Sprint (Fortitude DC 20) B) Climb the Hill (Climb DC 25)
* = Opportunity for Kankerata to make an attack against the PCs.
^ = Opportunity for saboteurs to mess with the PC’s day.
~ = Kankerata Stone the PC must mark before continuing the course.
If any of the PCs successfully complete the Run, then Aecora declares to the other Centaurs present, as even attempting the run they have done what no two-leg before them has tried, she continues to say that the PCs are indefinite guests of the Simbani Tribe, and may freely travel in Simbani lands.
Rewards: Give the PCs XP as if they defeated Kankerata in Combat. If the PCs rescued Xamanthe from the cave in, then Aecora rewards the PCs in private with a Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds (50 Charges).
Area N: Talon Peak
The Simbani hold the roc they call “Kizakubwa” (the vast darkness), in awe. .
If PCs want to earn the Spirit Bonus (once a year, upon death, gain Breath of Life (Self only). Increase the Roc's intelligence to 15. PCs must make a Diplomacy Check to make the Roc friendly. The Roc is treated as Hostile. If PCs succeed on this check the Roc offers one final challenge. PCs must make Ride, Climb and CMB checks at DC 15, 20, 25, 30 and 35. They must succeed 3 times before failing twice. Describe it as a wild ride through the mountains, if they fall determine height by rolling 4d10 and multiplying the result by 10. The PCs may aid one another; failure three times means a random PC falls (and likely dies). Kizakubwa declares his/her sacrifice to the land a tribute and will engage in combat if anyone tries to raise the body (though taking a piece to resurrect later is ok).
Area F: Burial Grounds
Clearing the mounds gains +4 to trust of the Simbani.
Local rhymes & kids games based on mythical monsters, my creation:
Fairy Tales:
The Knurly Witch (from Thousandbreaths, Gyronna’s hag, children’s game)
Knurly Witch, Knurly Witch, leave my bones alone!
Knurly Witch, Knurly Witch, don’t come in my home!
Knurly Witch, Knurly Witch, I won’t drink your tea!
Knurly Witch, Knurly Witch, oh – she’s got ahold of me!
At this point, the speaker acts as if being seized and dragged away, and the other children must catch up and surround the speaker while dancing and chanting “Knurly Witch, no!” until the witch stops dragging the child away. No one is quite sure of the origins of the chant, and locally children may substitute old crones or scary adults (e.g. Old Beldame).
The Misbegotten Troll (if he chooses as a bride, makes head into a lantern)
The misbegotten troll lives in an ancient swamp and ventures out to kidnap young maids he finds travelling alone. The misbegotten troll takes the maids back to his swamp hut and makes them his wives. When he gets hungry he will eat one of his wives and make her skull into a lantern than he uses to travel his dark swamp at night or hangs outside his door to warn him of intruders. The misbegotten troll cannot stand the sight of a wedding ring worn by a virtuous woman. Moral of the Story: Get married early.
The Wriggling Man (made of worms, curse for trying to steal from the fey)
The Wriggling Man was a greedy soul who one day crossed the path of a forest leshy and became magically lost. Knowing, as some people here do, that the only way to become un-lost was to turn one’s clothes inside-out and wear one’s shoes on the other foot, the Wriggling Man did so and found his way. The leshy, impressed at the Wriggling Man’s cleverness, offered him a three wishes. The Wriggling Man, in his greed, demanded he be granted the immortality of the fey, the magic of the fey, and the beauty of the fey. The leshy, bound to its word, granted the boon, saying “as ye wish to be like me, so it shall be, times three.” The leshy turned the Wriggling Man’s body to wood, and roots went from his toes into the ground. Thus was he made eternal. The leshy then gave the Wriggling Man his magic, but being made of wood he could not speak the words. Finally, the leshy called worms from the ground to burrow into the wooden body and rot it from the inside, for the beauty of the fey is but an illusion. The worms became the Wriggling Man’s body, and now he hides his form in deep robes and cloaks as he travels these lands looking to steal magic to restore his body and to seek out small children who don’t do their chores!
The Nightmare Rook (ferries dark fey to this land to steal souls as you sleep, a bad nightmare, leaves the person hollow and full of evil)
Once upon a time a farmer who had moved from the city to start a new life came across a black-feathered rook with an injured leg. Being a kind-hearted soul, he cared for the rook despite his wife’s warning that the rook was an ill omen in the household. The rook healed and flew away, pausing to give the farmer one of its feathers. The farmer put the feather in his cap and went back to his chores. That night, he put the feather under his pillow for safekeeping. For six nights, his wife and children could not sleep for nightmares. The wife begged her husband to rid himself of the feather, for it was a dark omen. The farmer threw it into the fire. The next morning, a visiting neighbor found the family dead in their beds, faces frozen in fear. For what the farmer did not know is that the Nightmare Rook had chosen that week to ferry the souls of evil men from this land to the next world, and he would stop each night to rest on the farmer’s roof. The feather the farmer had burned was the only thing protecting him from the Nightmare Rook, and in his folly he rid himself of it.
Kargstaad (the ice giant with 100 arms who grabs children who wander too far from home)
Kargstaad, with one arm…. (insert phrase, the goal is to see who can rhyme the most phrases, if someone gets to 100, which no one ever does of course, the 100-armed giant Kargstaad will appear). Example would be:
Kargstaad, with one arm flattens a bee, Kargstaad with two arms breaks a tree, Kargstaad with three arms catches a flea, Kargstaad with four arms has some tea…. And so on.
Jabberwock
Anything from Lewis Carroll’s works would do, including the Jabberwock poem.
It depends if by RP you mean
....inter party play in character between players then kingmaker by some distance
....players talking to npcs under the GMs control then what others have suggested
my favorite one
Just thought I'd throw in another vote for CoCT, probably the best campaign I've had the pleasure to run and if you have a group that enjoys rp it provides some very fertile ground.
Cap I dont see anything..hmm I am on my phone..maybe if I use my tab or computer
just using the thread as a test monkey for figuring out how to add spoiler tags:)
+ They prefer story arcs and memorable NPCs over hack and slash.
+ I need a fair amount of sandbox since these kids will never stay on rails.
+ They like puzzles, mazes and traps. Solving mysteries and scavenger huts work well for them.
+ They use negotiation and charm as much as they use their weapons to get out of a bind.
Serpent's Skull has a number of memorable NPCs from the get-go and there are lots of mysteries and traps to puzzle out. I'd say fully half of the books (especially the 1st) are sandboxes, and there should be plenty of opportunities for charms and negotiations in running the actual expedition.
just using the thread as a test monkey for figuring out how to add spoiler tags:)
Probably get better support if you post such a test up in the Website Feedback section. However, try clicking the [Show] button below where you type your posts/replies to see the full list of BBCode syntax. Here's an example though.
If you type the following (without leaving a space after the starting brackets)...
[ spoiler=Custom Spoiler Title]Text inside the spoiler.[ /spoiler]
... you will get:
You can also simply type...
[ spoiler]Text inside the spoiler.[ /spoiler]
...and get...
NOTE: If you click reply on my post, you'll note that anything inside the completed spoilers is not included in the [ quote] tags.
thanks i figured it out before i posted hence the successful tag. I've been half assedly trying to figure it for a couple years, i have 2 kids and am the stay at home parent so i can only dabble here and there:)
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If you want to play using the Pathfinder RPG rules without needing to convert anything, use the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition.
If you don't mind converting 3.5 rules/using them, then either it or Curse of the Crimson Throne. RotRL is still my favorite, it's just such a classic adventure. Goblins, giants, all that good stuff.
Plus, Sandpoint is just great to make your first 'home'. Korvosa is impressive, huge, and may be a tad difficult for new players to handle.
Feast is a great interactive mod. Good spot