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For a Slumbering Tsar campaign that I'm considering running at a local game store (I've ordered the saga but have yet to receive it, much less crack the massive tome), one of the likely players - the likeliest, in fact - has expressed interest in running a Master Summoner.
Summoners are kind of a favorite of mine, and I've already rewritten a number of their rules - much improving them, in my humble opinion - and my approach has always been a little more Green Lanternish with regards to the nature of the creatures summoned (phantasms or shadowy versions of their 'real' counterparts and under control of their creator). I've also drawn up more than twenty 'themed' summoning lists to replace the generic ones and that has worked nicely up to this point... but now I'm considering something new in that regard.
Instead of the standard summoning lists, I'm considering allowing the player to make a Spellcraft check to add a creature he's encountered to his summoning list, provided the creature is of the appropriate CR. If he fails he can attempt it again once he has leveled up, though by then he might not wish to.
I figure I'll start him off with a few basics from the level I list - dog, viper, eagle - and then let him add to it as he adventures and encounters new creatures. This is a bit of a departure from what I normally do and I'd be interested in hearing any thoughts on this approach.
It sounds interesting... sort of like Pokemon lol. I would suggest having a way for the summoner to research a summons similiar to how you would research creating a new spell. Have it take time + gold. This allows the summoner to go for a specific creature he might want to use but has yet to meet. Several appropriate knowledge rolls plus access to a library of some sort should be required as well. This gives him something to do during downtime also.
Just an Idea. I would be interested to hear how it turns out and see any nailed down ruleset you use. Good luck.
It sounds interesting... sort of like Pokemon lol. I would suggest having a way for the summoner to research a summons similiar to how you would research creating a new spell. Have it take time + gold. This allows the summoner to go for a specific creature he might want to use but has yet to meet. Several appropriate knowledge rolls plus access to a library of some sort should be required as well. This gives him something to do during downtime also.
Just an Idea. I would be interested to hear how it turns out and see any nailed down ruleset you use. Good luck.
I was kicking around the idea of incorporating Knowledge skills, kind of using that to force him to 'specialize' a bit, but Summoners have so few skills ranks to begin. I definitely haven't ruled it out at this point.
Just be aware that every creature you put in may end up on the lists. And, the way the CR system works, you are going to actively put in weak creatures at higher levels - check the CRs of summon monster spells vs caster level.
Just be aware that every creature you put in may end up on the lists. And, the way the CR system works, you are going to actively put in weak creatures at higher levels - check the CRs of summon monster spells vs caster level.
Yeah, definitely on top of that. I broke down the CR's of Summoning lists back when I made all those themed versions. Anything that's too powerful would result in an automatic failure.
Still not sure what a fair DC would be for adding creatures. I'd like it to be high enough that, as you said, every creature encountered isn't automatically added but at the same time, I don't want it to be so frustratingly hard that it becomes a drag on the character.
Perhaps 10 + CR x2 (min 1)? That'd be DC 11 for a 1st to 3rd level Summoner and DC 24 or 26 at 11th level...
I meant more that if you put the party against roughly appropriate encounters, a somewhat high level summoner would never meet something to add to his lists, simply because the summon lists lag in CRs. The SMIX list includes nothing above 14, IIRC.
I meant more that if you put the party against roughly appropriate encounters, a somewhat high level summoner would never meet something to add to his lists, simply because the summon lists lag in CRs. The SMIX list includes nothing above 14, IIRC.
Well that depends on whether the check to add the creature upon meeting it or if he could add it later when he can cast an appropriatly high enough level of summons. So lets say he fights a Dretch at 3rd level. If he can make the check once he hits 5th level (SM III) then its all good. If he has to make the check as the encounter unfolds then yes... it screws him up pretty bad. As long as the requirement is only "ecountered it AT ANY TIME in the past" then it should be fine.