Goblin Squad Member
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Hi y'all,
I am still skeptical about the direction of some of the aspects of the game but have not given up all hope that I will enjoy it.
I would like to bring together ideas from some recent threads and see if they can be combine:
(1) We know that taverns will have interiors
(2) We know that there is an unconscious state before death
(3) There have been questions about whether PVP should be allowed in taverns
Why not bring all of these together and instigate bar room brawls?
A Half-Orc walks up to the bar, with a mug of ale in one hand, and grabs a large bell. Ringing it, she bellows - "Bar Room Brawl" and all hell is let loose.
We could have non-lethal damage delivered and people fight until unconsciousness; maybe with the ability to crawl to the bar to get a nice refreshing and revitalising ale which would allow them to return to the fight - albeit a bit more drunk!
As people's ale consumption increases their ability to attack would also reduced, but maybe with the ability to take a bit more damage due to the dulling effect of alcohol? Also a reduction in the clarity of vision.
If a person does kill another then this could effect their reputation and possibly bar them from the tavern for a set amount of time. Though an assassin with a contract may gain reputation for this type of action instead.
Why not have a number of achievement titles: Drunk and disorderly, bar room brawler, out for the count etc.
As time went on, furniture and other items could be made available for use as improvised weapons and used as such. This would make feats like improvised weapons (available in TT) really nice and viable. Anyone up for playing a Drunken Master?
Many of the mechanics appear to be already available and with a few tweaks should not be too difficult to implement in this fashion. Maybe this isn't a priority but might make for some interesting fun and character interaction.
Just an idea.
Perchance To Dream
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm pretty sure I've suggested Bar Brawls as a way to do non-lethal PvP in taverns. I do really hope that taverns can be a safe place that I can sit back and relax without worrying about getting stabbed in the back.
It also would open up the possibly for a Drunken Kung Fu style for Monks that requires the monk to complete Bar Brawl achievements to learn new techniques.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm pretty sure I've suggested Bar Brawls as a way to do non-lethal PvP in taverns. I do really hope that taverns can be a safe place that I can sit back and relax without worrying about getting stabbed in the back.
It also would open up the possibly for a Drunken Kung Fu style for Monks that requires the monk to complete Bar Brawl achievements to learn new techniques.
Bar room brawls have been brought up a few times as part of different discussions, I just wanted to raise it as its own subject.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So long as I can smoke my pipe-weed with a pint of porter on the sidelines and watch the evening's entertainment.
Should be unlocked only after failing a game of downing-shots (bets) followed by "loss" = being thrown into the mud outside after breaking the furniture and abusing the patrons in colorful language and black eyes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Taverns will be safe from pvp?
What kind of magic is in place here?
Nothing actually indicates that it is, but the pro's of safe taverns greatly outweigh the con's in mine and the opinions of others.
I actually think that unsafe taverns may actually make them more of a target than a place to kick back and socialize. That would be generally bad for the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Taverns will be safe from pvp?
What kind of magic is in place here?
Nothing actually indicates that it is, but the pro's of safe taverns greatly outweigh the con's in mine and the opinions of others.
I actually think that unsafe taverns may actually make them more of a target than a place to kick back and socialize. That would be generally bad for the game.
Maybe they could leave it up to the settlement's do decide? Makes sense that in a rough chaotic town sort of like the wild west that brawls would break out. Makes sense that in a religious town with a lot of priests, paladins and pilgrims to look down on brawls.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I totally support bar bawls in safe taverns. I just want bar brawls as a non-lethal recreational option.
The point is a safe tavern allows people to relax unwind and socialize. It also facilitates people going out an seeing the world because after a long trip to a distant settlement they can take a moment to relax and let their guard down in a tavern.
Unsafe taverns are directly contradictory to social environment that taverns are intended to create.
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Goblin Squad Member
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People will use them even if mechanics don't make them safe. The blog explaining the Power mechanic said that in order to recover your Power (which can be thought of as a mana bar for any class, but one that doesn't recharge automatically) one choice you have is resting in a Tavern. So, because people will want to use the Tavern, I'd expect they'd use it whether or not the mechanics prevent you from being attacked inside, as the reward is worth the risk of being attacked inside you own settlement (may be different for a tavern out in the boonies, but they just need more guards). Consequently, as the people will still want to use a Tavern unsecured by mechanics, I'd expect settlements to cater to their desires and guard their taverns carefully. It only makes sense, as to do otherwise is to limit your citizen's combat effectiveness.
I just pictured an amusing exploit if taverns are safe. "Oh no, our city's under attack! Quickly, everyone into the tavern so we can buff up and ready our counterattack!"
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Goblin Squad Member
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Plus, from a gamer's perspective, it's little things like this that could make PFO really stand out.
I was playing DC Online a while ago and I had a friend who had very little interest in joining up. Then I told him how I thought that the modes of movement were cool and it's the first MMO I could fly in.
As soon as he heard you could fly, he became interested and decided to give it a shot. He ended up liking it and playing for a while, paying for a subscription for a couple of months.
Now would bar room brawls be a major selling point for this game, no, I'm not trying to insinuate that. But if this game has solid game play and several unique features no one has ever seen in an MMO before...that's are good thing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, based on the fact that there's a "dying" state instead of instantly dying when dropped... Maybe people who want to allow bar brawls in their settlements will have "pay per use" clerics standing by to revive people inside the bars? Y'know, have it in the rules of the place that "you can fight, but if you fall you'll owe us X money for a revive" ;)
Personally I wouldn't want bar brawls in my own settlement; I'm just a simple merchant and don't want to get caught in the crossfire when I /sit to have a pint (eventually!).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, based on the fact that there's a "dying" state instead of instantly dying when dropped... Maybe people who want to allow bar brawls in their settlements will have "pay per use" clerics standing by to revive people inside the bars? Y'know, have it in the rules of the place that "you can fight, but if you fall you'll owe us X money for a revive" ;)
Personally I wouldn't want bar brawls in my own settlement; I'm just a simple merchant and don't want to get caught in the crossfire when I /sit to have a pint (eventually!).
I get that...but hey, maybe that is where a variant of the SAD mechanic could be introduced.
"Hey ugly, I'm gonna knock your head off," SAD
A: "Have at thee". Accepted
B: "Leave me alone, I just want to drink" Rejected.
If the person attacks after the challenge was rejected, hit them with a rep loss, flag him as hostile so the whole bar can stomp his face.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, it would work the opposite way if you were using SAD; if you reject him the two of you fight, if you accept him there's no fight unless he wants to take a large rep hit. But yeah, I could see using a 0 gold (or minimum, if not 0) SAD as a challenge mechanic, if that's possible.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I would prefer not to stretch one system to cover every discussed possibility.
Why not just make it low-Reputation (and, at the discretion of the tavern/settlement manager, Criminal) to deliver a finishing blow on someone inside a tavern, even if a challenge was accepted or the characters involved were otherwise flagged? If that thing is Simply Not Done in the culture of the patrons of the tavern, they will then turn on any defector immediately.
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Goblin Squad Member
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POI inns that are attached to settlements with laws are covered pretty well except for the PVP window. Then it is up to the players and prevailing culture. If "wilderness" POI inns (including special player kickstarter inns} can establish a few laws (even if they don't get NPC guards) it probably should be the players task to keep order. Even without laws, it could be a neat bit of "content" to kick bullies out of an inn.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A bar brawl environment would require a separate mechanical reality from the rest of the game or you'd lose reputation on attacking, and be attacking with swords instead of steins and stools. It's also the only place there might be non-lethal combat, being knocked out briefly instead of dying.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A bar brawl environment would require a separate mechanical reality from the rest of the game or you'd lose reputation on attacking, and be attacking with swords instead of steins and stools. It's also the only place there might be non-lethal combat, being knocked out briefly instead of dying.
Yeah. Totally separate system would be needed. Not that I am against it, if there is a demand and resources. As it stands, two hits within 30 seconds and you lose rep vs. unflagged targets. Plus whatever the deal for death is.
Off topic, but the blog thread is closed. (we are so well behaved) It was written that you can get "attacker" for friendly fire, but only lose rep if you strike again or the friendly target dies within 30 secs of your blow. Does that include your group members if they hit you with FF (by accident) and then you get killed by enemies in that 30 seconds?