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My group is close to the end of Curse. Last chapter to go.
They have expressed an interest in what happens when we defeat the queen,
and have been quietly pumping Marshal Kressida seneschial Neolandus and others about the possibility of them making a move for the throne.
I already have some ideas concerning what ill run a series of adventures aimed at convincing one or another group within the city to support them while dealing with a host of other potential claimants including Queen Ileosa's Chelaxian family and relatives of the Dead King.
But two of my players asked if i had considered using the kingdom rules from Ultimate campaign and i am wondering has anyone had experience of using that as a continuum of the Crimson throne campaign ?
And if so did you keep any handy stats around :)
Yes and no - I've actually been working on the reverse. My group is currently playing Kingmaker, and sometime in the future I'll be running COTCT in the kingdom they're currently making.
By Eodred's death in EoA, this is will be the layout of the kingdom Council:
Ruler - Ileosa Arabasti
Councilor - Garrick Tann
General - Severs D’vri
Grand Diplomat - (currently unfilled)
High Priest - Lolia Perenne; later replaced by Cleric of Asmodeus probably
Magister - (currently unfilled; will probably put someone important from the Acadamae here)
Marshal - Marcus Endrin
Royal Enforcer - Zenobia Zenderholm
Spymaster - (currently unfilled or unknown; Mistress Kayltanya will later replace them)
Treasurer - Syl Gar
Warden - Cressida Kroft
All the names of course taken from the provided leadership listed in the players' guide. Neolandus of course would have the seneschal/advisory position though I don't think that's a Council slot.
Many of these will come and go for various reasons - Marcus of course dies at the beginning of Chapter 3, the high priestess leaves or is fired or killed (not sure what yet), and so on and so forth.
Starting the game with a council like that (adjusted if you feel need, of course) will give you a general idea of how the kingdom is doing. You can fairly easily track the kingdom's economical and social well-being using the kingdom building rules - riots, plagues, cruel rulership, overzealous enforcement (looking at you Grey Maidens), and so forth are covered under those rules and hand out their appropriate penalties. So if nothing else, that'll let you clearly keep track of how deep in the hole the PCs are when they take over at the end, and how much work of Ileosa's they have to undo to put Korvosa/Varisia back on its feet.
Given you said you're already near the end of the campaign, you don't necessarily have the advantage of doing it as you go, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to backtrack through the game and run the numbers over what the PCs have already done. You'll of course want to ignore the opportunity for random Kingdom Events since you're doing stuff that already happened, but that randomness could probably be replaced with taking into account things your PCs (or important NPCs, like the Arkonas, the Kuthite clerics, the Shoanti, and others) have done that might or might not have affected the kingdom on an Event scale.
At that point, the PCs taking the rulership roles starts out simply - change the people in the various slots, adjust the kingdom's bonuses, and pick up from there. If you've an idea for a continuing plotline just roll with that, otherwise you can probably get a decent start with just taking the Kingdom Events as they come.
Best of luck! And let us know how it goes =)
Thanks :).
yes the list of titles and such if i use the ultimate campaign system would be quite different. And tbh the way im planning it the ultimate campaign will most likely take over once the Rp/adventuring part of convincing people they should be put in charge is done.
The City state of Korvosa would definetely be suffering from just about every bad event you can think of from Ultimate campaign and some extra ones as well so it will be a challenge to swing it back from the edge.
I've made a rough draft of what Korvosan economy would look like, using the Kingdom builder spreadsheet from this thread. I also made a rough map of the city state of Korvosa, dividing it in 160 12 mile hexes. I didn't give it a second look since my first attempt, though, so it needs to be checked and finetuned. Still, if you're interested, I'd be happy to mail it to you, just give me an e-mail address.
I already planned an extra adventure after this AP which will center around the election of a new king. I gave an outline of that scenario here, just click on 'long live the king'. Maybe you can find some inspiration there as well.
Let us know what you do to continue the campaign. My group is still in the first installment, but I like to plan ahead. If you're interested, you can read about our adventures in my campaign journal.
Thank You MrVergee i will :)
as for how things are going the Queen met her fate yesterday and the group has began working on getting their hands on the throne in earnest.
Currently Senenchal Neolandus has been named Regent and rules along with a council with Marshal Kroft, Archbanker Darb Tuttle, Archmage Toff Ornelos, and 3 surviving members of the highest Korvosan noble families.
The first act of the Council has been to call for a Diet among the cities ruling families and influential organizations to choose a new king.
While Kroft favors them Neolandus has informed them that for now he remains neutral but if they can swing enough support their way he will come out in favor of them as well.
There are a number of people making a claim for the throne including a distant relative of the dead King Eodred Arabasti a Rodric Arabasti man known as a leader of a Fierce mercenary company. Rodric arrived in the city shortly after the players left for the final battle with Ileosa and helped Marshal Kroft and the Rebels clear the Queens forces out.
Queen Ileosa's half brother a Chelaxian with delusions of grandeur but surprisingly has support among a small segment of pro Chelaxian nobles and the Order of the Nail. The young mans arrival has been announced by the Chelaxian ambassador along with a stern warning that Chelaxia will take very dim view if anything happens to him while in Korvosa
The Academae has put forward a cousin of Archmage Toff Ornelos Dimitri Ornleos an accomplished mage and scholar.
Among the noble families of Korvosa two have support Lord Kassius Endrin a relative of the Dead Lord Marcus Endrin the slain leader of the Sable company. Kassius has the support of many of the Noble families and some of the cities poorest people but is viewed by others as a naive crusader
the other is Lord Falco Korva who can by round a bout ways trace his lineage to Field Marshal Jakthion Korvosa He has the support of most of the Noble families at the start.
So all in all there will be plenty of action for a while
Nice, I'd favor Rodric or Kassius. Legally Rodric Arabasti probably has the best chances, especially considering the lawful nature of Korvosa and the precedent of Queen Domina. I don't trust this Falco Korva guy, though, he must be a cheat! Are any of the PCs interested in the throne as well?
Again, if you want my kingdom builder drafts, let me know.
When I look at human history in the real world, I could only support Rodric or the PCs.
There haven't been very many times when a leaderless state achieves victory in war and then the state has to choose a new leader afterwards. The only one I recall is the American Revolution in which the people demanded George Washington become 'King of America' in which he refused.
There is also the precedent of conquering armies ruling over those conquered (see Alexander, Rome, Genghis Khan etc).
So with that in mind, the two 'heroes' of the city would be Rodric (who helped Kressida directly) and the PCs, who over-threw the Queen, freed the city, cured the plague and killed the devils.
If Rodric can't prove his lineage, I would say the PCs would have the strongest ties, if he can, then it will be a hard fight for the throne, though Rodric would have the legitimacy to claim it more-so than the PCs.
If the PCs don't have designs on the throne, any one they support is likely to be the one who succeeds.
Mrvergee sorry i meant to post it earlier but i would love to get my hands on your notes :)
Rodrics claim to the Arabasti name is legitimate as far as it goes the problem arises from the fact that his line of the Arabasti family comes through his great grandfather a legalized bastard who ended up being disinherited. So while he has a strong claim it is by no means ironclad.
Lord Falco is like the ancient Uncle everyone has who's world views as so hidebound it causes embarrassment (he came about during Edge of Anarchy when i needed a High noble Npc for one of the players to meet, the
character was trying to convince nobles to put their personal house troops out on the street to quell the riots) needless to say Falco refused and stopped that plan cold quoting ancient precedent that the
noble families are not allowed to field their troops within the city
unless personally commanded to do so by the King or Queen.
Tels.
Yes one of my players does have an eye on the throne a minor noble and Paladin of Sarenae, quite the firebrand with a silver tongue, the group has already started work on putting his name forward..
Not that they haven't been approached as well by others hoping for their support :) something that has the groups bard in something of a sweat since he's being offered a princely sum to support Lord Falco.
I would love to get my hands on your notes :)
Lord Falco is like the ancient Uncle everyone has whose world views are so hidebound it causes embarrassment (he came about during Edge of Anarchy when i needed a High noble Npc for one of the players to meet, the character was trying to convince nobles to put their personal house troops out on the street to quell the riots) needless to say Falco refused and stopped that plan cold quoting ancient precedent that the noble families are not allowed to field their troops within the city unless personally commanded to do so by the King or Queen.
Yes one of my players does have an eye on the throne a minor noble and Paladin of Sarenae, quite the firebrand with a silver tongue, the group has already started work on putting his name forward..
Not that they haven't been approached as well by others hoping for their support :) something that has the groups bard in something of a sweat since he's being offered a princely sum to support Lord Falco.
If you get an email address, I'll mail the notes to you.
So, Falco's not a fraud, but he's still douchebag. If he was such a sucker for the law in the past, when his aid was required, he should realize that no charter or law in Korvosa supports his claim now.
The PCs should have a fun time trying to win the throne, especially if the competition tries to bribe, blackmail or enchant the council members. I'll do something similar with Glorio Arkona ...
PS: What did you do with the Shoanti threat? Unless your PCs managed to stop their war plans, the Shoanti should be marching on Korvosa by now.
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mrVergee i sent the email to ou via pm :)
The Shoanti will make an appearance. I am hoping to use that as the first test of the Ultimate campaign mass combat rules what forces will be available to Korvosa will in part depend on how the struggle for the crown is going.
The players did not do well in making friends among the Shoanti. While they managed to finish the ritual they barely scraped by on gaining the Shoanti's respect, and they did little to lower tensions between the shoanti and Korvosa in fact except for the Ulfan Bard (skald) i would say relations between the players and the Shoanti are pretty bad.
Not sure if i should start a new post but ill just leave this here for now.
The most recent session went as follows.
The group was asked by Seneschal Neolandus to meet a ship arrving from Cheliax carrying Brom Arvanxi the Younger Brother of Queen Ileosa. The group was to provide and escort for the Young Noble and make sure nothing happened.
At the same time the groups Rogue Falke got word from one of his agents (he has been setting up a network of informants and spy's since Edge of Anarchy).
That Archbanker Tuttle was meeting with someone that same day to discuss throwing his support behind one of the candidate.
In the end the group decided to split up with Heidar the Paladin of Imadea and the ranger Raevor decided to head for the docks while the Rogue Falke. Steiner the Bard Abrada the Cleric and Sidic the mage decided to follow Tuttle.
Arriving at the Docks Heidar and Raevor saw that a sizable crowd of angry citizens had gathered and that out in the harbor a sleek Chelaxian warship was approaching.
They then spotted that Kassius Endrin was among the crowd and speaking passionately denouncing the Arvanxi family and Chelaxian interference in the cities matters. the Crowd already angry over Brom Arvanxis imminent arrival began to become enraged. Stepping in Heidar attempted to keep things from escalating out of control but failed to reach the crowd.
As the Chelaxian ship came along the pier the crowd began to pelt it with rocks and rotten fruit shouting out slogans against Cheliax and the Arvanxi. As the ship came to a halt a row of Hell Knights could be seen standing upon the deck.
But even the presence of the Hellknights was not enough to calm things down as Brom came on deck as well a group attempted to board the ship even tho Heidar and Raevor tried to hold them back.
The Hell Knights reacted swiftly drawing weapons and attacking the crowd. As things spun out of control the warship pulled away from the pier and out of reach and the harbor area was thrown into a riot.
Heidar and Raevor fought their way to a group of Korvosan city guards under attack by the mob and aided the in retreating.
Mean while the rest of the team set up a plan on how to keep an eye on Arch Banker Tuttle. With the Rogue planting a coin in the archbankers purse and the mage using Locate object to monitor his movements they finally found were the meeting was a catacomb deep under Korvosa.
There they found him discussing coming out in support of Lorda Korva.
After an initial offer a sizable sum of money was Rejected by Tuttle he came back with a counter offer. If Lord Korva could locate and hand over the Scales of Abadar a long lost religious Icon Tuttle would support him.
After Tuttle Left the group tracked Falco's Agent to a flophouse in the Shingles were he reported to another. The group was quite shocked to note that the Agent reported to a creature they identified as a Vampire Bearing a symbol they had seen before on the Vampire Spawn in Rakers alley (seven days to the grave). Deciding they needed more information they decided to monitor the vampire and the agent. And try and find out what was going on.
Returning to Neolandus after a night spent quelling the riots at the harbor the found him quite upset that they had not done as he asked in escorting Brom Arvanxi.
he revealed that he had hoped that by making sure nothing happened during Broms arrival he would have been able to politely reject the demands by the Chelaxian ambassador that Broms claim to the throne should be considered. But with The ship having been attacked the Chelaxian ambassador was furious making it impossible for Neolandus to reject their demands in this matter...
The Second day began with a Vote on the future king of the Atirr.
the final vote ended up
Roderic Arabasti - Vote Baroness Naomi
Kassius Edrin - Count Lukas Brine
Lord Falco Baron Vogler Baron Garney
Brom Arvanxi - Baron Allin
Heidar Paladin of Imodea - Marshal Kroft.
Abstaining Neolandus Toff Ornellus High Priest Tuttle.
With no Clear winner another vote was called for in a weeks time.
Having little else to go on the group decided to investigate the
Vampiric connection to Lord Falco.
Following his agent they discovered that he had hired a group of
unscroupulus adventurers to travel to an old battlefield between
the Shoanti and Atirr deciding they needed to monitor what they were
up to the Rogue Falco along with Raevor the Ranger decided to follow
the adventurers out of the city while the rest stayed behind to keep Falke under observation.
After trailing the adventurers and listening in on their conversation they found out that Falco's agent belived that the Scales had been lost
at the battle.
Arriving at the site the group decided to intervene using Greater teleport the rest of the party arrived at the old battlefield and followed Falco's group into a series of caverns.
the caverns proved to be filled with undead and aberrant densiens of the underground, and when Falco's group figured out they were being followed the matter turned into a race ending in a three way battle deep within the caverns between the players Falco's adventurers and
a huge abberation. Winning the battle the players ended up with the Scales and returned to Atirr on good measure.
Meeting with Tuttle the players presented him with the scales and secured his vote.
The day after another vote is called for
End vote is
Roderic Baroness Naomi
kassius. Baron Lucas
Falco Vogler, Garney
Brom Baron Allin
Heider Marshal Kroft, Archbanker Tuttle
Abstaining Neolandus Tuff Ornelos
With no clear winner another vote is called for in a weeks time.
The group continues to monitor Lord Falco and his people slowly revealing more of his network.
two days later word reaches Atirr. An army of Shoanti tribesmen is on the march heading for Atirr.
Neolandus calls together the leaders of the city to decide what to do
it is finally decided that Atirr will field what armies it has under the leadership of Marshal Kroft and Roceric Arabasti.
Neolandus gives the players a special mission. To convince the Hell Knights to join them in battle, the knights would make all the difference in a battle.
traveling to the Chapter house of the Hellknight they found them dismissive of their entreaties but finally offered a deal.
A knight of the order had recently been found to have broken one of the principle rules to never deal with Fiends. When discovered the Knight fled pursued and was chased by 5 of his former brothers but escaped via a portal in a ruined manor 2 days travel towards the cinderlands.
If the group could find the Knights sent after Cuendal the traitor and help them bring him back to justice the Hell Knights would fight along side the Atirran forces against the Shoanti.
Traveling to the manor they found the portal and stepped through into a proto dimension connected to the abyss. Within the dimension they discovered that the knights had hall been killed by the Abyssinian demons and that Cuendal now ruled this dimenson having slain the demon that ruled there before.
A series of battles were fought before they reached a cavern were Cuendal waited along with a powerful Succubi the monster that had
gotten him to betray the hell knights. A battle was joined and at its height. The Succubi offered the players a deal she would help them Defeat Cuendal in return she would continue to aid them in the future and they would assist her in certain matters on the material plane.
Refusing they slew the Succubi and subdued Cuendal and brought him back to the Knights.
Having Fullfilled their part of the bargain the Knights Joined the forces of Atirr and met the Shoanti on the field of battle.
Outnumbered the fate of the battle looked bleak for Atirr.
Until Heidar the Paladin rode forth and spotting Krojun Eats what he kills leading one of the three Shoanti forces challenged him to single combat. With Krojun Accepting they fought a duel that would be spoken of for years to come. Ending in Krojuns defeat his part of the army stepped aside. still faced with two of the 3 shoanti armies and outnumbered things still looked bleak..
An actual war with the Shoanti, I like it.
Oh yes should be fun :)
Here are the Army stats i decided to make them a bit advanced for flavor.
Atirran guard Human Infantry
Size 500 (Huge) ACR 6 HP 33 DV 16 OM 8
Resources : None
Speed 1
Morale:+2
Consumption
Tactics Defensive Wall Om -2 DV +2, Dirty fighters one melee phase OM +6 False Retreat OM and DV +6
Commander Marshal Kroft
Charisma modifier +2 Profession Soldier 2
Leadership 17 level 12 + charisma 2+ leadership
feat.
Boons:Bloodied but Unbroken +2 to offense checks
Loyalty +2 to all morale checks.
The Sable Company human/hippogriff airborne archers
Size 100 (Small) ACR 6 HP 40 DV 16 OM 8
Resources: Mounts Hippogriffons
Speed 6
Morale +4
Consumption
Tactics Expert Flankers OM -2 DV +2, Sniper Support +2 damage during melee phase, Withdraw
Commander Kassius Endrin
Charisma +2 Proffession soldier 3
Leadership 17
Boons: Flexible tactics +5 to morale checks to change tactics Sharpshooters +2 OM bonus in ranged,
Loyalty +2 to morale
The Atirran Marines Human archers
Size 100 (medium) ACR 5 HP 12 SV 15 OM 8
Resources improved arms
Speed 1
Morale +0
Consumption
Tactics Spellbreakers Taunt Relentless Brutality.
Commander None (will be lead by Heidar. But since he has no proffession soldier skill he doesn't really give them any bonuses
Roderics Mercenaries
Size 50 (small) ACR 4 DV 14 OM 4
Resources Mounts
Speed 3
Morale +3
Consumption
Tactics Cavalry experts +2 to OM vs non mounted, Expert flankers, Withdraw
Commander Roderic Arabasti.leadership 20
Boons 3 Bonus Tactic, Hit and Run, Loyalty
Hell Knights. Human Cavalry
Size 50 Human Knights ACR 7 HP 40 DV 18 OM 8
Resources Improved armor, Improved arms,
Speed 3
Morale +4
Consumption
Tactics. Cavalry experts, Relentless brutality, Withdraw.
Commander Commander D'vor
leadership 20
Boons: Loyalty Merciless Hold the Line Triage.
Shoanti army Lyrune-Quah (Moon clan) 500 (Huge) ACR 8 DV 18 OM 8
Resources Archers healing
Speed 2
Morale +2
Consumption
Tactics Sniper Support, Taunt Relentless brutality, False retreat.
Commander Zulminda Hunts by night Leadership 15
Triage Sharpshooter
Shoanti Army Sklar-Quah (of the Sun)(1) 500 Huge ACR 8 DV 18 OM 8
Resources healing
Speed 2
morale +2
Consumption
Tactics: Relentless brutality, taunt, Dirty fighters,
Commander Gerrev Fang Taker Leadership 20
Boons Bloodied but Unbroken, Merciless, Loyalty, Bonus tactic.
Shoanti Army Sklar-Quah burn Riders 100 Large ACR 8 DV 18 OM 8
Resources Mounts
Speed 3
Morale +2
Consumption
Tactics Cavalry Expertise, Expert Flankers, withdraw
Commander krojun Eats what he Kills leadership 20
Boons. Bloodies but Unbroken Merciless, Loyalty, Bonus Tactic.
Due to the private duel between Heidar and krojun the Burn riders take no part in the battle.
We have also been working out how to implement the players themselves as part of the battle.
Straight out converting them using the Ultimate campaign rules makes for.
slightly wierd units :)
Such as Falke the Rogue
unit size 1 ACR of 7 HP of 31 DV 21 OM 12 Ranged 11
Speed 1
Morale ??
Resources Healing potions Improved armor(magic) improved weapons (magic) Mount Ranged weapon
Special abilities
Bleed(rogue talent),Evasion, Sneak Attack, trap sense, Invisibility
Tactics Dirty fighter, expert flanker.
In a test we did we almost had Falke destroy a 500 man shoanti army on his own.
We are thinking of solving this by applying the pcs as resources so if Falke for instance goes with the Atirran guards he would apply some bonuses to the unit such as giving them some of his special abilities
We have also been working out how to implement the players themselves as part of the battle.
Straight out converting them using the Ultimate campaign rules makes for.
slightly wierd units :)Such as Falke the Rogue
unit size 1 ACR of 7 HP of 31 DV 21 OM 12 Ranged 11
Speed 1
Morale ??
Resources Healing potions Improved armor(magic) improved weapons (magic) Mount Ranged weaponSpecial abilities
Bleed(rogue talent),Evasion, Sneak Attack, trap sense, InvisibilityTactics Dirty fighter, expert flanker.
In a test we did we almost had Falke destroy a 500 man shoanti army on his own.
We are thinking of solving this by applying the pcs as resources so if Falke for instance goes with the Atirran guards he would apply some bonuses to the unit such as giving them some of his special abilities
Honestly, if you were to run a legitimate combat with a ~15th level PC, even a Rogue, I would not be surprised if he won.
Honestly, if you were to run a legitimate combat with a ~15th level PC, even a Rogue, I would not be surprised if he won.
Hehe yes you are right on that point. We made fun of the scenario of the 5 of them lining up infront of 1100 charging Shoanti and then playing out a scene were they destroyed them in a movie montage.
But were's the fun in that :)
Nothing like slaughtering 1,000 goblins by yourself to make yourself feel like a true badass.
So the Battle was fought. We ended up going with allowing the Players as Special "attachments" to the Units.
The fighting was brutal. The Shoanti Focused their attack the Korvosan guard. Which was the groups plan.
With the Shoanti focused on the Korvosan infantry Their Cavalry and Hippogriff riders struck hard and fast against the moon clan robbing the Shoanti of the Archer support but at the cost of most of their infantry.
but in the end with the Sun clan infantry surrounded and using their greater mobility the Cavalry and hippogriffon riders managed to rout them.
The night after the battle. Roderic Arabasti called upon the players.
Offering them a deal. He would step aside remove his name from the vote,
in return they would support him in gaining lands and title either within Korvosa or in unclaimed territories if they managed to gain the crown.
The group Agreed to this and upon returning to Korvosa a new vote was called for.
Roderic supporters: Withdrawn from the run
Kassius: Lukas Allin
Falco : Vogler, Garney,
Players: Marshal Kroft, Archbanker Tuttle, Baroness Naomi,
Brom Allinn
Abstaining Neolandus, Magister Ornelos
With No clear winner a new vote was called for within a week.
but as the council prepared to adjurn Brom Arvanxi rose up in a screaming rage and demanded that the council stop this farce and aclaim him king right there and then when Senenchal Neolandus refused and ordered him to sit Brom drew out a scroll and while defended by his servants who had managed to sneak into the castle summoned forth a Mighty Daemon, it fell to the players to defend the council and the applicants against the Daemon and Broms henchmen,
Defeating them Brom was arrested and after some discussion Was delivered to the Chelaxian Ambassador with orders to remove him from the city at once
Sounds nice. How did your players enjoy the battle? Did the battle rules work well enough to have fun? Did your PCs also take an active role in the fight, as unit leaders or strategic generals or something? Did you use a map to indicate where each separate battle was being fought?
Nice turn of events with Brom Arvanxi, impatient little Chelaxian boy ... serves him right to be banished. And one more competitor out of the way :-)
The deal with Roderic is cool as well. I'm a bit confused as to why he doesn't get a vote himself after withdrawing from the race; he could have voted for the PCs too. By the way, Bloodsworn Vale is a good bargaining price to seal the deal. There is a module on it, which is too low in level for your players, but you could place a powerful dragon in it if you wanted your PCs to clear the valley for Roderic.
For the battle system.
It is very simple which is both a pro and con. It really doesn't allow for much interaction of high level players as individuals.
We did test an earlier, A proto-battle were we had the players as individual units but they made mincemeat out of their enemies. Even an army twice the size of what i had them facing would have been hard pressed to challenge them and the Korvosan forces.
I put them in charge of all the Korvosan units let them plan out their tactics and how they fought there are two players in my group who are into war-gaming warhammer fantasy 40k flame of war etc. They found the system a bit to simple and lacking in dept but other than that enjoyed it.
We used an old battle mat we had around and drew in the environment were they chose to fight a mountain pass opening into a wider valley. we used
some miniatures to signify the units, which allowed us to better visualize the flow of battle.
so TDLR: Simple and quick enough to use. But not in-depth enough to have the players take part without being to overpowered at the level they are.
Yes there was much cheering when they got rid of Brom Altho the Bard Steiner was quite pissed when he wasn't allowed to cut his throat.
The Deal with Roderic basically free's up those that had voted for him in this Case the baroness Naomi. The Applicants themselves have no vote of their own in this case the Baroness Naomi.
Aye Bloodsworn vale would have done nicely except we have already played that one but i have something similar in mind.