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Under the grapple rules for Tie Up it says:
"If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD)."
and
"If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target's CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check."
However, the creature that is "tied up" could still try and burst the bonds correct?
"Rope, Hemp: This rope has 2 hit points and can be burst with a DC 23 Strength check."
"Rope, Silk: This rope has 4 hit points and can be burst with a DC 24 Strength check."
"Chain: Chain has hardness 10 and 5 hit points. It can be burst with a DC 26 Strength check."
It makes sense that they could burst the bonds but the troubling line in Tie Up was the "If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target's CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check" line.
Also, I may have missed it but I assume it would be a standard action to burst the bonds.
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You cannot make a strength check while pinned, as per the condition (can only take mental and verbal actions).
If your hands were bound with just one wrapping of rope, then the burst DC would be 23. But normally, when people get tied up, it involves more than one wrapping of rope, so bursting your way out of the bonds is a little far fetched. Not to mention, someone who knows how to tie people up would do it in such a way that you wouldn't be able to use all your strength to break the bonds.
CMB does include your strength, so bursting the bonds may already be included in that specific check.
You cannot make a strength check while pinned, as per the condition (can only take mental and verbal actions).
Actually it says "a pinned creature is limited in the actions that it can take. A pinned creature can always attempt to free itself, usually through a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check."
So it saying "can always attempt to free itself" seems like it would include bursting the bonds. It only says that this "usually" is done through a CMB check or an Escape Artist check.
They are not limited to only mental and verbal actions. That is just the line that leads into casting spells and does not say that they can only take those kind of actions.
I am actually trying to understand a Tetori monk that I playtested the other day and trying to work out the bugs and get all the rules down straight regarding the wonderful world of grappling.
Assuming a grappling focused character who's grappling CMB will be higher than his base CMB, is the CMB mentioned in the tie-up text above the grapple CMB (assuming you were grappling to pin to tie-up) or is it your unmodified CMB?
Since it is under the heading of grapple, it should use the grapple CMB.
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Regardless, I don't believe the intent was to be able to burst your way out of the bonds. The DC given is for one strand of the given material, but nobody I know would leave it at just one strand of rope.
Being unable to move kinda assumes that you cannot do any physical actions. In PFS, you would be limited to just using CMB and Escape Artist, kinda like a cavalier can have "an exotic mount such as a riding dog, wolf, boar as your mount", which means that cavalier can only choose between those (and of course the other mounts specifically mentioned).
Outside of PFS, well, there's some gonna be a lot of moving around.
Outside of PFS, well, there's some gonna be a lot of moving around.
It is the moving around that I am trying to prevent ;)
It was the DM that said they could burst the bonds and so I am stuck with it a little. Of course, now I am going to use chains so the DC is a 26 and that is not easy even at higher levels (Strength of 30 still needs a 16).
Also, We were working on tactics. Another player might try a two weapon rogue (normally thought to be way underpowered) but he would delay until after I go so that I can lay the tied up bad guy at his feat and he will go for the two weapon sneak or coup de grace. He will also be ready for once I pin the bad guy to take his shots.
We hope it will make an effective combo and be able to take at least a bad guy per round out of the fight. Plus it is a change for both of us as I usually stick to casters.
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You certainly have a good combo going for yourselves :).
They don't have to be tied up, just pinned, in order to get sneak attacks off. But if you want to use rope/chains, consider using different materials too. I know walls can be magically treated, perhaps your chains can be too (walls get +20 to the break DC)(would take craft wondrous item though, just like the walls)
Take a look at manacles as well. Mithril manacles have a break DC of 30
The "usually" is there to avoid disallowing creative actions, like, say, using a sharp bit of rock to cut the bonds. However, I think saying it requires a CMB check implies a strength check is not sufficient.