Shield of Swings + Shield Wall?

[Maverick Ranger]

Hello All,

I have a question and I could not find the answer on the message boards, but maybe that's because the answer should be obvious and I shouldn't be asking!

Normally I play the Ranger/Rogue types and I feel I'm somewhat educated with how those classes work, but our group is going to start a new campaign with new characters while the main GM takes a break and plays instead of runs things for a while. The new GM wanted us all to play something different so I am making a Fighter. Our Cleric wants to be in the fray of things and fight besides me, and have us take a lot of teamwork traits together. I've spent the past few days building, tearing down, and rebuilding my Fighter until I got the stats and feats I think I want, but now I am thinking of future feats...

To make what's obviously a long story short, I came across Shield of Swings, and noticed that it gives you a temporary +4 shield bonus. This makes me wonder, if I'm using Shield of Swings, and both myself and the Cleric have the Shield Wall feat, does this work? The Cleric has a shield, my weapon is in effect a shield until my next turn, so I don't see why not, but it also seems too easy... Does anyone know?

Thanks!

[Neonpeekaboo]

Sadly, no. Shield Wall specifically states you must be wielding a shield in order to gain the benefit. While Shield of Swings gives you a shield bonus, you are still wielding a two-handed weapon, and not a shield.

[Maverick Ranger]

Thank you Neon! I had a feeling the answer would be no but I figured I would at least ask. It did seem like it would be too easy to combine those feats.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, if you had a large sized Heavy Shield, that would be a two handed weapon.

[Kazaan]

Remember, just because it gives you a Shield bonus to AC doesn't necessarily mean it's a shield just as Mage Armor/Bracers of Armor don't count as wearing armor for Monks, despite giving an Armor bonus to AC.

[Neonpeekaboo]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Well, if you had a large sized Heavy Shield, that would be a two handed weapon.

BBT, you sneaky bastige. :)

Some could argue that wielding a large shield isn't wielding a large weapon, it's simply using a shield like a weapon (Much like shield of swings gives a shield bonus, while not being a shield).

But I would say in doing so, he'd be getting a 1d8 + 1-1/2 Str attack..

You'd either end up with imp shield bash, to retain the shield bonus, or you'd be sacking half your paltry damage for a +4 shield bonus from SoS that I dont think would stack with the regular shield bonus.

I guess it could go either way, depending on the GM.

[blackbloodtroll]

A Shield is a weapon.

No fiddling around it.

RAW, and RAI.

Even history supports this.

A Shield is a weapon.

Just ask Captain America.

[Kazaan]

But wouldn't a Large Heavy Shield used by a Medium creature just be a Tower Shield? And you can't bash with a Tower Shield... unless the reason you can't bash with a Tower Shield is because it'd be a 2-h weapon and you usually wear a shield with one arm. So maybe you can bash with a Tower Shield... you just need to use both hands to do so...

[Maverick Ranger]

Kazaan wrote:

Remember, just because it gives you a Shield bonus to AC doesn't necessarily mean it's a shield just as Mage Armor/Bracers of Armor don't count as wearing armor for Monks, despite giving an Armor bonus to AC.

That is a very good point that I didn't consider. I'm just starting to get into the mental groove of being a Fighter (or more like, NOT being a Ranger) so there are things I'm not used to thinking about, like Mage Armor for instance, never really occurred to me before. I keep scanning through the feats to try and find the best way to maximize my character at levels beyond 1 and there are so many great options, it is a little less obvious then the path an archery Ranger would take for feats.

[Quandary]

I might be inclined to allow SoS to count as a real shield for something like this, but RAW/RAI: no.
Similarly, Paizo has ruled that you can't add Shield Enchantments to items that conditionally grant a Shield Bonus with Shield Enchantments,
whether that be a weapon that you might use with SoS, or some that grant non-magical Shield bonus when wielded in a certain way.
I would also be inclined to rule otherwise, as you are getting less out of the enhancement (being conditional), but offically you can't do that.