When you've been playing for a long time, as I'm sure many of you have, it's really easy to archive things into your brain as rules that aren't rules. I've apparently done this when it comes to holy symbols. I was under the impression that cleric casting and supernatural abilities required a holy symbol, period, all across the board.
When I threw my PCs in a prison last session and they were prepared to very easily escape via teleportation via their cleric, I reminded the cleric he couldn't because he didn't have his holy symbol. Which lead to a debate and my realization that that assumption of mine is totally unfounded in fact.
My question to everyone is, how do you handle cleric casting, and, specifically, supernatural abilities such as channel energy or domain abilities? Do you require the holy symbol or not, and why?
My issue is situations like a prison. Even a relatively low level cleric can laugh at all manner of restraints if he has access to teleportation (leaving moral implications aside), and this ruins a lot of plot hooks.
Only spells that require a divine focus (listed DF in the spell components section) need a holy symbol. Abilities that require a holy symbol will say they do.
Just gag and bind him. Nearly all spells require a verbal component and a somatic component. It should be easy for any jailer to know if someone can cast spells as almost every spellcaster should have a spell component pouch on their person.
Only spells that require a divine focus (listed DF in the spell components section) need a holy symbol. Abilities that require a holy symbol will say they do.
Just gag and bind him. Nearly all spells require a verbal component and a somatic component. It should be easy for any jailer to know if someone can cast spells as almost every spellcaster should have a spell component pouch on their person.
"Batwing and eye of newt just happen to be tasty snacks. My grandmother made them for me all the time before that unfortunate oven accident"
In seriousness though, it is just a feat to remove almost all material components that aren't particularly expensive. Although, it is a reasonable assumption that clerics usually have better things to do with feats. A sorcerer might be able to get by pretending to just be a normal person as long as they don't try to dress like a superhero reject. Witches too, since their spellbook is their familair, which could pretend to be normal, and possibly scurry off when everyone else is being caught.
I guess my post was a little obtuse and long-winded, as my posts tend to be...
I'm aware of the rules on the subject, what I'm curious about is if anyone personally handles them differently for matters of theme. As far as I'm aware, the supernatural cleric domain abilities (as well as channel energy) require zero verbal/somatic components, meaning that a cleric could do it while gagged, bound, blind, and paralyzed (unless I'm mistake on that last part).
So my question is, do any of you handle this differently? The ability to use, say, the travel domain, makes some clerics impossible to bind, restrain, or imprison for most governments. Same with any cleric that can channel energy to damage. You can't easily keep them imprisoned. They always have a deadly weapon with them. They'll just roast any guards that walk past their bars or into their cell.
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It's not that difficult to stop all teleportation in an area permanently with a dimensional anchor tied to an hallow or unhallow spell.
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I've never seen it be required, though for flavor every character I have who has a holy symbol (even my fighter) wears it proudly and prominently, usually on a necklace. Even if it were required for every spell and class ability of clerics, I don't think there would be a noticeable difference on the games I play.
That's a fair point. I hadn't realized dimensional anchor could tie to hallow.
To be honest, though, I like a lower-magic theme, personally. I'd love to find a less spell-intensive idea than that. I dislike the concept of every prison in the world being hallowed and dimensional anchored because, well, it just makes sense. It seems so videogamey, to me. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong in that outlook; I'm open to correction.
I've never seen it be required, though for flavor every character I have who has a holy symbol (even my fighter) wears it proudly and prominently, usually on a necklace. Even if it were required for every spell and class ability of clerics, I don't think there would be a noticeable difference on the games I play.
Well, like I said...it's not noticeable until it matters.
My players got thrown into a prison last night, and the cleric with the travel domain wanted to just teleport them all out. Very easy fix to, well, prison. A little too easy, as they say.
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As far as I'm aware, the supernatural cleric domain abilities (as well as channel energy) require zero verbal/somatic components, meaning that a cleric could do it while gagged, bound, blind, and paralyzed (unless I'm mistake on that last part).
Core - "Regardless of alignment, any cleric can release a wave of energy by channeling the power of her faith through her holy (or unholy) symbol."
One problem solved -- No channeling without a holy symbol.
Even if they have a holy symbol (e.g. Birthmark), a cleric might not want to channel for damage if it will hurt his allies who are in the same cell. Of course, many clerics who channel for damage are evil and might not care too much. And even if they could channel to kill the guards, they might still be unable to exploit if they're shackled, tied up or just locked in the cell, and they'll find out what happens when a prisoner kills a guard.
Travel's Domain's Dimensional Hop is only gained at 8th level and requires line of sight. A blind-folded or blinded cleric can't use it. Or just lock the cleric in a windowless cell with a well-fitted door.
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I find the "stripped of gear and detained" trope is overused. And by that I mean it gets used at all in anything past level 3 that requires mechanics. Once your characters are level 4+, they're too good for that lame of a situation, and if they encounter it you just role-play out their hilariously easy escape. Same goes for disease fests, wilderness survival, etc. If you want to feature it, keep it at low levels where they don't chose whether to auto-win or not, they just can't.
As a side note, a prison designed to hold powerful creatures would have methods in place to shut down most magical shenanigans, as well as several layers of redundancies. Anit-magic field inside an adamantine walled room 12 inches thick with only a bottle of air, a decanter of endless water, and a sustaining spoon in it. The ceiling, however, is magically treated glass so the prisoners can be observed, but is 30ft high. If they escape through the ceiling, they're still inside a locked-down wing of 4 cells, and there's a guard here.
All this is to say, while many mechanics can be a vulnerability, I feel it's usually better to just have them be flavor. The times that they are vulnerabilities usually feel debilitating, not a chance to be clever with your character, leading to a feeling of "un-fun" for the whole situation. Nobody likes the villain who sunders the wizard's spellbook (which he doesn't need until the next time he prepares spells) instead of the greatsword being swung at him.
Sorry that was a bit of a rant. The entire "I don't like how easily higher level characters ignore mundane challenges, I should fix that" mentality is one of my few pet peeves.
Awesome. The page deleted my 25 minute post instead of posting it. Maybe I'll try again later.
I"ll just add in that characters above level 5 being rare is really, really, really, really not a true fact, for one really, incredibly true reason.