The Golden Rule and the hierarchy of the rulebook and cards

[xris]

On page 2 of the rules we have the Golden Rule.

Quote:

If a card and this rulebook are ever in conflict, the card should be considered correct. If cards conflict with one another, then Adventure Path cards overrule adventures, adventures overrule scenarios, scenarios overrule locations, locations overrule characters, and characters overrule other card types. Despite this hierarchy, if one card tells that you cannot do something and another card tells you that you can, comply with the card that tells you that you cannot.

My concern is that the last sentence of the Golden Rule only applies to cards (if one tells you that you cannot do something then that over-rules the hierarchy ), this doesn't seem to apply if the rulebook tells you that you cannot do something.

If we take the following situation, I think the outcome is obvious but it doesn't seem to be supported by the wording of the Golden Rule.

The barrier Skeleton Horde is encountered. "Each character at an open location summons and encounters an Ancient Skeleton henchman".
The Ancient Skeleton henchman card states "If defeated, you may immediately attempt to close this location".

This would suggest that any location where one of these summoned Ancient Skeleton henchman were defeated could now be closed (this question has come up a couple of times in the BGG forums). The rulebook does cover the situation, Henchmen, page 17.

Quote:

Some cards may summon a particular henchman card into play temporarily. Since this summoned henchman doesn’t come from the location deck, defeating it doesn’t allow you to close a location.

Trouble is, according to the Golden rule, cards over-rule the rulebook. So despite the rulebook saying that you can't close the location, the Golden Rules tells us that cards over-rule the rulebook. The last sentence of the Golden Rule doesn't apply because there is no conflict between cards. The only conflict is between the rulebook and the Ancient Skeleton card and so the card is correct.

I think it would help if the Golden Rule is reworded to something like...

Quote:

If a card and this rulebook are ever in conflict, the card should be considered correct. If cards conflict with one another, then Adventure Path cards overrule adventures, adventures overrule scenarios, scenarios overrule locations, locations overrule characters, and characters overrule other card types. Despite this hierarchy, if one rule tells that you cannot do something and another rule tells you that you can, comply with the rule that tells you that you cannot.

(The word "card" has been replaced with "rule" in the last sentence.)

[TClifford]

I could have sworn it was added to the FAQ already, but I guess it hasn't.

As has been discussed a number of times on this board and even BGG, a summoned Henchmen does not allow you to close a location. Ignore that line of the card.

[h4ppy]

That line of the cards is more of a reminder than a rule... and I think it causes many problems!

@xris - I'm not sure if your suggestion is in line with the intention of the Golden Rule. It may be that cards CAN over-rule "cannots" from the rulebook... until we see the whole AP we cannot be sure of this.

[xris]

h4ppy wrote:

@xris - I'm not sure if your suggestion is in line with the intention of the Golden Rule. It may be that cards CAN over-rule "cannots" from the rulebook... until we see the whole AP we cannot be sure of this.

Yes, I was also concerned with my suggested wording for the reasons you put forth. But I think something has to be added to the FAQ to resolve the issue.

TClifford wrote:

As has been discussed a number of times on this board and even BGG, a summoned Henchmen does not allow you to close a location. Ignore that line of the card.

This might be a better solution, change the wording on page 17.

Quote:

Some cards may summon a particular henchman card into play temporarily. Since this summoned henchman doesn’t come from the location deck, ignore the line on the henchman card to close the location if defeated.

This at least keeps the existing Golden Rule intact.

As it stands we have a Golden Rule that should always apply, expect for the times when it doesn't! Currently, the rules don't cover when it doesn't apply.

[Mike Selinker]

This has been the subject of a great many discussions among the developers. One example is the rule "When you reset your hand, you can't play any more cards." But if I play a card, doesn't that overrule that rule? Of course it doesn't.

For that matter, why don't all cards overrule the Golden Rule? It's quite tricky.

So we're still thinking about it for future iterations, and will alter the Golden Rule if something is suggested which covers these hiccups. Till then, play by what is obviously the spirit of the game, assuming that is clear.

Mike

[Fromper]

I agree with h4ppy that the line about closing locations should be removed from all henchman cards in the future. The rules for when you can or can't close locations are in the rulebook, so you don't need it to be on the cards. Then we could stop seeing this question come up every few days.