
Liam Warner |
I'm a little unclear on this because of the variable sizes. The text states . . .
Size: If the unit is a room, this entry indicates a range of how many 5-foot squares are needed for a standard room of its type. For example, a Kitchen is 2–6 5-foot squares. If you need a larger room of this type, construct two rooms and join them. If you need a smaller room of this size, you can make it that smaller size for free. For example, if you only need a 5-foot-square Kitchen, you can construct one at the listed price, even though the smallest size listed is 2 5-foot squares.
Ok so the size listed is standard and you can make a smaller one for "free" or in this case the same price no discount to supply a smaller group. Now a "standard" alchemist lab" allows 3 people to work in it with a size of 8-16 squares and I only want it to have room for my 1 wizard so I reduce the size by 3. Here's where I hit a problem if 8 squares allows 3 people to work and 16 squares allows 3 people to work that's the same number of people at two different sizes (40 square feet vs 80 square feet) so which one is the standard? For that matter can I place these cubes however I like e.g. 2 5' cubes on top of each other, 4 in a square on the ground low ceiling? Since it says a 5' square and shows top down maps but not whether its also 5' HIGH. That is it 5' square CUBE or 5' SQUARE and 10' (or appropriate height) high?
Do I reduce the 8 by 3 to 2.6 repeating so round up 3 squares or do I reduce the 16 by 3 to 5.3 repeating or 5 squares. Do I just say I only want a 1 5 foot room for my lab and its all good?
Same when going the other way lets say I want an eastern style bath the standard bath is 3-6 squares (15 to 30 square feet) for ONE large tub and a stove? Laying aside the fact I have problems seeing a 30 square foot room holding just 1 large bath and stove does this mean if I want enough bathing room for say 6 medium sized creatures to be in the communal bath at one time I need to put 6 6 * 5 foot squares together? That's 6 * 30 or 180 square feet of bathing space that holds a stove and 6 large tubs.
Then I hit the lavatory 1-4 squares which states it has room for up 4 5 foot private rooms??? So the lavatory for 1 person is 1 square and 4 people is 4 squares does this mean that the measurements are given for a range of functions. That is 8 is 1 alchemy room but I can only build a maxium of 2?
I'd appreciate any help people can offer on this as I'm trying to build a sanctum for a mage and this variable size for a standard room is not helping my size difficulties.
For those interested sanctum layout is as follows.
Size 60 20 foot cubes (does seem a little small to me for a level 6 mythic path ability as its only double create demiplane greater and you can layer those whereas this can't be say placed on your private plane but oh well it just meant I had to give up my dream of a nice little castle with grounds.
So I have 3 sets of components posted here. Item A is my pared down sanctuary, Item B was my original one and Item C is the demiplane where I said enough lets see how much space I need for my full dream not just the basics I was originally looking at e.g it contains a bar and brewery for the comfort of guests). I've also tossed in a few notes on things that I'd appreciate some clarification on. For the purposes of this I assumed it was 5' squares and 10' high rooms (for calculating the size, not sure if that's right)
ITEM A
Per the rules sanctum composed of 60 20 foot cubes. Most items here are built in their smallest size with a few exceptions e.g. storage, garden (for atmosphere recycling) and is shaped like a house i.e. a series of inside rooms, no outside excpet the garden which is contained in its own room.
Contents
1 * Alchemy Lab 8 Squares (can be pared down by 3 for 1 person I think).
1 * Armory 5 squares (Storage for 10 used to hold weapons and armour of various types for 1).
1 * bath 3 squares.
1 * bedroom 4 squares.
1 * Magical Repository 12 squares (arcane books and spell books).
1 * Book Repository 12 Squares (general reference books and fiction).
1 * Dojo 15 squares (could probably be reduced as this is for 10 but training rooms nice).
1 * forge 8 squares (can be reduced as this is for 3 people).
1 * Garden 20 squares.
1 * Kitchen 2 squares (no mention how many this serves).
1 * Laundry 2 squares (again no mention of how many it serves).
1 * lavatory 1 square.
1 * office 2 squares.
1 * Sanctum 1 square.
1 * Scrying room 4 squares.
1 * Sitting room 6 squares.
1 * Storage 8 squares (Warehouse size perhaps?.
1 * Summoning Chamber 6 Squares.
1 * Vault 8 Squares.
1 * Workstation 15 squares (Counts as masterwork for craft or profession so why take Artisian which only counts for craft? Serves 3 so I figured it can serve for 3 different crafts at that size).
Total Size = 142 5' squares or 710 square feet leaving 490 square feet or 24.5 20 foot cubes to play with.
Item B
Original planned sanctum which turned out to be too large to fit into the sanctum size. For this I took the whatever values in the range given allowed me to build the actual rooms I wanted e.g. common room.
Contents
Cellars: 20 * storage (154 squares)
Great Hall: 2 * Common Rooms (48 squares)
Guest Quaters: 1 * Lodging (25 squares)
Guest Toilets: 5 * Lavatories (5 squares)
Pool: 1 * common room (24 squares)
gender specific bathing area: 2 * bath (12 squares)
gender specific suana's: 2 * sauna (8 squares)
kitchen: 1 * Kitchen (6 squares)
Kitchen Specific Storage: 1 Storage (4 squares)
Laundry: 1 * Laundry (6 squares)
Laundry Storage: 1 * Storage (4 squares)
Lab: 1 * Alchemy Lab (10 squares)
Observatory: 1 * observatory (Second darkness style, 10 squares)
General purpose Library (I assume general is a choice rather than a specific knowledge): 1 * Book Depository (5 squares)
Hidden Occult Section: 1 * Magical Book Depository (6 squares)
Dojo: 1 * Dojo (16 squares)
Forge: 1 * Forge (8 squares)
Armory: 1 * Armory (8 Squares)
Private Quarters
Bedroom: 1 * Bedroom (4 Squares)
Office: 1 * Office (2 Squares)
Sanctum: 1 * Sanctum (1 Square)
Scrying Room: 1 * Scrying Room (4 squares)
Lavatory: 1 * Lavatory (1 square)
Sitting Room: 1 * sitting Room (6 squares)
Personal Storage: 1 * Storage (4 squares)
Vault: 1 * Vault (4 squares)
Hidden Summoning Chamber: 1 * Summoning Chamber (6 squares)
Attic: 15 * Storage (113 squares)
Grounds: 34 * Gardens (672 squares)
Total = 840 squares total area on one level i.e 1 square in height = 840 squares in width * length and another 14 squares in height from bottom of plane to top (20 feet below ground 30 feet of the building and another 20 feet above it) putting it at 11,760 squares in total or some 58 thousand square feet when I'm limited to 1,200. Unless I made a mistake in my calculations.
Item C
My what the heck lets just build an entire demiplane to rule calculations.
Contents
Cellars: 20 * storage (154 squares)
Great Hall: 2 * Common Rooms (48 squares)
Guest Quaters: 1 * Lodging (25 squares)
Guest Toilets: 5 * Lavatories (5 squares)
Pool: 1 * common room (24 squares)
gender specific bathing area: 2 * bath (12 squares)
gender specific suana's: 2 * sauna (8 squares)
kitchen: 1 * Kitchen (6 squares)
Kitchen Specific Storage: 1 Storage (4 squares)
Laundry: 1 * Laundry (6 squares)
Laundry Storage: 1 * Storage (4 squares)
Lab: 1 * Alchemy Lab (10 squares)
Observatory: 1 * observatory (Second darkness style, 10 squares)
General purpose Library (I assume general is a choice rather than a specific knowledge): 1 * Book Depository (5 squares)
Hidden Occult Section: 1 * Magical Book Depository (6 squares)
Dojo: 1 * Dojo (16 squares)
Forge: 1 * Forge (8 squares)
Armory: 1 * Armory (8 Squares)
Private Quarters
Bedroom: 1 * Bedroom (4 Squares)
Office: 1 * Office (2 Squares)
Sanctum: 1 * Sanctum (1 Square)
Scrying Room: 1 * Scrying Room (4 squares)
Lavatory: 1 * Lavatory (1 square)
Sitting Room: 1 * sitting Room (6 squares)
Personal Storage: 1 * Storage (4 squares)
Vault: 1 * Vault (4 squares)
Hidden Summoning Chamber: 1 * Summoning Chamber (6 squares)
Attic: 15 * Storage (113 squares)
Grounds: Misc calculated using X with assorted water, crops and other buildings scattered about (4592 squares).
X = Main Building is 14 squares from side to side and 12 squares front to back.
I assume 28 squares (or 140 feet of "farmland") from a side of the building to the edge of the plane that loops you automatically to the other side at which points its another 140 feet to the opposite side of the building a total of 280 feet worth of land).
At the front this gives a total of 28 * 14 or 392 squares which doubles (rear of building) to 784. At the sides this gives a total of 28 * 12 or 336 squares which doubles to 672 squares. Then we have the corners measuring out from the corner of the building you have an extra space with 28 squares on each side for a total of 784 squares (28 * 28) and there's one on each corner giving 3136 squares (are you lost yet I know I had to go back over this many times grin). Which means the grounds (lakes, farm, buildings) all add up to a total of 4592 squares (a bit more actually as the buildings not fully square).
Total = 4,760 squares total area on one level and another 14 squares in height from bottom of plane to top putting it at 66,640 squares in total or some 330 thousand square feet.
Now since Create Demi-Plane greater creates 20 10 foot cubes a level (assuming 20th level) and the building rules use a 5' square I'm assuming a 10 foot cube is 8 squares (double a square in width and you get 10 by 5 by 5 then double that in length nad you get 10 by 10 by 5 then double the height 10 by 10 by 10 or 1 to 2 to 4 to 8). We need to convert the 66,640 squares to cubes giving us (66,640 divided by 8) 8,330 10 foot cubes. At 20 cubes a level a 20th level mage can create 400 cubes per casting. 21 castings gives us this space (well a bit more actually) with a 6 hour casting time for a permancied spell lets say 1 day per casting. We have the plane in just a month (although we then need to do the building). Not bad so lets say we spend another 5 months. . . with another 21 days each to add . . .
Shape: Loops back on itself to be self contained.
Seasonal: Day/Night and Summer/Winter cycle.
Strucutre: Mountain with lake (think Japan style geography)
Energy: Minor positive dominant.
Bountiful: Environment that feeds 1 medium creature per 10 foot cube.
And there we go a nice self contained plane and I can use my sanctum for different purposes (although I'd rather do a Baba-Yaga and expand my sanctum with create demiplane if possible). If you want to spend 12 hours a day casting (not something I would) you can have it up and running in 3 months.

Liam Warner |
Made a mistake in 5' square to 10/20' cube calculations I can fit item B into the sanctum with 20' below ground, 60' above, the main house, enough bountiful land to feed 24 medium creatures and a 40' by 100' clearing at the front.
So I just need to expand that out to get some room for a village and lake, now do I want to keep it square or go rectangular?
Also does anyone have any answers to my questions?

Chemlak |

Liam, that's a heck of a wall of text to wade through, and I'll be quite honest: I haven't yet read the whole thing.
The crux of your query, though, seems to be "how flexible are room sizes?"
The answer isn't particularly inspired or necessarily useful to you: very.
My read of the room size entries is "the figures given are a rough guide to give you an idea how big to make particular rooms when you decide to map out your buildings".
Using the alchemist lab (8-16) is a brilliant example, actually. For the given cost, you can make a room between 8 and 16 squares in size (2x4 to 4x4 would be fairly typical choices), in which 3 people can work comfortably - if you try to cram more people in, they will get overcrowded, and just as importantly, not have enough equipment to work at the same time.
Or, you can reduce the size by 3 (5-13 squares) with equipment for just one person to work. Whilst an alchemist lab for one person of size 8-13 has enough room for 3 people to work alongside each other, there's not enough equipment in the lab for them to do so.
As far as room height goes, you can't go wrong by assuming that a standard room for a medium creature is 10 feet high. In modern construction most rooms tend to be around 7-8 feet high, and for simplicity's sake, rounding up to 10 avoids problems of "are large creatures squeezing? If I make it only 5 feet, does my 6-foot-6 barbarian have to squeeze?"
At the end of the day, almost every question that you've raised has the answer "find a reason that makes sense. That's the reason".
Let's take a look at the bath example: 3-6 squares for one tub and a stove. 3 squares is bath in one square, stove in another, and a square to stand in. That's fairly cramped. 6 squares has the bath against one wall, stove next to it, and plenty of room to move around. It's a big bathroom. If you want to make a bathhouse for 6 people, use the 3-square size as your base: it's a 3x6 room, with the baths along one wall, stove in the corner, and plenty of walking space for people to pass each other on the way in and out. It doesn't need to be any bigger, but you could double the size (to 3x12, say) and leave a walking gap between each bath, maybe even move them into the middle row of the room so that except where the stove is people can go all the way around each of the bathtubs.
It's a guideline that says how much space you can use for a given cost, not a straight jacket to restrict you.

Sarrah |

In regards to the bath example stated by Chemlak, different cultures have different size bath tubs. In America, our showers are typically 2'5 by 2'5 to 3' by 3'. Our bathtubs are generally 3' by 5'. (Being in a construction job) I have seen baths that are larger than 10' by 10' in more expensive, higher class houses. Japan typically has bigger and taller bath tubs. Japan and American tubs are made out of different materials (mostly based on culture - no real difference in terms of efficiency). (Japanese Bath Tub: http://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2012/05/dezeen_Nendo-collection-by-Nendo-f or-Bisazza-Bagno-1.jpg)
4 squares should be pretty efficient for your single person baths - think what a modern day half-bath looks like with the toilet and sink against the same wall.