Restore Class: A paladin, or other class, who has lost her class features due to violating the alignment restrictions of her class may have her class features restored by this spell.
How do you regain your powers if you broke your Code of Conduct?
Isn't it the same thing? I always assumed it was. Or more accurately, I always assumed the "violating alignment restrictions" bit was an example, not an all-inclusive list of one item, ergo, other means of losing class features can also be atoned by use of this spell.
As for not using a spell, I also always assumed that if a Paladin can "fall" due to bad behavior of any kind, then he can regain his powers by altering his behavior. In short, if RP can strip a paladin of his powers, then RP can restore them. So for me, if a paladin behaves unlawfully, ungoodly, or breaks his religious codes, that is 99% of the time just due to RP, so I let him RP his penance and undertake some RP-heavy questing to regain favor with the deity.
"A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the paladin's mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any further in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see atonement), as appropriate."
The class says "atones" and that word has a very real meaning in the English language. The class also mentions the Atonement spell but it does not say that the spell MUST be used, therefore, all the acceptable English language usage of "atones" still applies.
Hrm. I don't know. When I see that last passage I think its telling me, "They can atone and heres how to do that!"
Yes, and they can kill monsters, and Smite Evil is one way to do it, but that doesn't mean that's the only way to kill monsters. Likewise, the Atonement spell is one way to atone, but it's not the only way to atone.
So basically whenever the DM lets you have your powers back? Ouch.
So basically whenever the DM lets you have your powers back? Ouch.
Why not? The GM is the one who took them away. YOU behaved in a fashion outside of what the GM deems acceptable for a paladin of your deity. HE decided to strip your powers. Now YOU behave in a more appropriate fashion until HE decides to restore your powers.
Makes sense to me.
If you trust your GM to be reasonable and fair, then you should have no problem with losing your powers (he reasonably and fairly ruled against you) nor with regaining your powers (he reasonably and fairly ruled for you). That doesn't mean you can't talk it over with him. Ask why you lost your powers. Ask what you must do to get them back. Negotiate if you think either falling or atoning is unreasonable or unfair.
If you don't have that trust with your GM, and if you can't negotiate to a more acceptable compromise that lets you play the paladin you want to play, then find a new GM.
So basically whenever the DM lets you have your powers back? Ouch.Why not? The GM is the one who took them away.
YOU behaved in a fashion outside of what the GM deems acceptable for a paladin of your deity. HE decided to strip your powers. Now YOU behave in a more appropriate fashion until HE decides to restore your powers.
Makes sense to me.
If you trust your GM to be reasonable and fair, then you should have no problem with losing your powers (he reasonably and fairly ruled against you) nor with regaining your powers (he reasonably and fairly ruled for you).
That doesn't mean you can't talk it over with him. Ask why you lost your powers. Ask what you must do to get them back. Negotiate if you think either falling or atoning is unreasonable or unfair.
If you don't have that trust with your GM, and if you can't negotiate to a more acceptable compromise that lets you play the paladin you want to play, then find a new GM.
Woah woah woah. I'm not the person in question here. I was just curious since I noticed the lack of wording in Atonement for Paladins who break their Code of Conduct and the answer I got was DM Fiat.
Basically in another thread, it was somewhat mechanically proven that a Paladin who is compelled can have their Code broken and be forced to seek atonement. I thought this was odd. When I looked up seeking an atonement spell(Since they kept bringing up that is was free now specifically for this purpose), they were still stuck.
Sorry, I was using the non-specific "you" in those examples, meaning, "whoever has a fallen paladin and is reading this post". I know that wasn't clear. My bad.
Why not? The GM is the one who took them away. YOU behaved in a fashion outside of what the GM deems acceptable for a paladin of your deity. HE decided to strip your powers. Now YOU behave in a more appropriate fashion until HE decides to restore your powers.
Makes sense to me.
Honestly, This is my prefered method. There are some things out there that I just think 'spell it away' to be too cheesy.
If a paladin breaks the rules and earns his god's disfavor... then the DM should set a condition to get back in their good graces.
Not just 'find person x, pay XXX gold.' That's not particularly fun.
On that note... the DM should give a vision or SOMETHING to tell the player WHAT he needs to do to get his powers back.
don't just leave him to twist in the wind for a few months or anything. That's just a jerk move :P
Give him some hope to strive for.
It all depends on how the paladin fell.
Easy example: Paladin is mind controlled and forced to do horrible things. A simple atonement will spell it away. All you did was fail a saving throw(a moment of weakness fluffwise), so a simple spell to fix it is pretty balanced.
Hard example: Paladin plays fast and loose with the rules. After multiple warnings, the paladin's alignment shifts to NG. They lose their powers. No amount of spelling will shift them back to LG. Casting atonement is just the start. To regain their powers they have to become LG again, while means they will have to follow the paladin code for a period of time without getting the benefit of their powers. Once the paladin shifts back to LG, then they will have to convince their God/Order/Whatever gives them power to take them back. The details are really up to the DM here.
In short: The more you did to fall from grace, the harder it will be to earn your way back in.
It all depends on how the paladin fell.
Easy example: Paladin is mind controlled and forced to do horrible things. A simple atonement will spell it away. All you did was fail a saving throw(a moment of weakness fluffwise), so a simple spell to fix it is pretty balanced.
Actually the spell specifically won't save you unless you fell from your alignment restrictions. Which is pretty rough when you have to figure out how to get your powers back when you may have not even willingly broke your code.
I get the impression paladins can loose their powers and remain lg. I think at the end of the day it cokes dow. To the pc getting a chance to atone through toil or questing. In the sodden lands there is an ex papadin who o think has worked for decades to atone hos sins.