next month at a local con, i am hosting a PVP tomb of horrors event, where the point is to complete the scenario and be the lone survivor. As part of the description i posted that bringing your own pc was ok, but i got to review it. since the adventure is meant for level 9, i stated that the pcs would be level 9, and would use 25 build points. standard starting gold.
Now, i am used to seeing all types of munchkin for the core classes, cleric, wizard, fighter and so on. what i am not used to, or have much exposure to, is the magus, oracle, inquisitor and so on.
So i am asking if people could point out for me some combos that i should be aware of that would make a 9th level PC too much for some others, especially with the other classes.
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Magus. He can nova down just about anything at 9. say. intensified shocking grasp+ free empower or just plain empower
+4 belt of dex, headband of Int. with ~18 in both as an elf. +2 to one.
24 dex 22 Int. with dervish dance that's 1d6+7 (1d6+10-11 depending on weapon enhancements) damage + 10-15d6 electricity damage that can CRIT. not to mention a FREE +2ish enhance to said weapon. with arcane accuracy giving +6 to ALL attack rolls thanks to the Int.
there are several others. But. he does lack a bit of defense.
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Crossblood sorcerers can get ridiculous damage rolling if you aren't careful; enough just outright kill a whole room of PCs in one casting of certain spells. You might also watch out for a cleric with the love subdomain. While I cannot give you all the details due to having not researched it fully, I've seen one of these clerics pretty much prevent combat from ever even happening. It's possible to get your DCs on charm effects so unspeakably high that even the wisdom based casters start having trouble passing them. Extra points if they do what the one I know did and also rig it so people can't even attack you without making an almost impassably high will save.. Meanwhile, you're still free to charm them into massacring everyone else in the room.
You can also expect to see a lot of trouble if someone builds any sort of optimized summoner; synthesist will probably be your greatest concern of the summoner builds, given what you've said about your existing plans. Now uh... the magus will probably be able to reliably one shot the rest of the party. A dervish dancing magus with a scimitar is basically the sort of thing that makes the GM want to rip their own eyes out of their sockets. Likewise, you may see gunslingers that can do so many attacks in one round that they might as well be an entire party of six fighters.
Also keep an eye out for the heaven oracle (I think that's the right one). They can bypass the HD limit on color spray to hilarious effect. That specific type of oracle will probably have limited damage output, but in return for this will be able to color spray their whole party into submission. After that, all they've got to do is whip out a scythe and go about laying down coups. They've got far worse things they'll be able to do if someone actually does pass the ludicrously high save they're able to attach to color spray.
Edit: Don't underestimate barbarians either. They're so easy to optimize that it's laughable. You can expect to see barbarians able to dish out more than twice anyone's health pool worth of damage in that level bracket. Also anticipate exceedingly high saves from intelligently built ones, and potentially the ability to full attack after a charge. There are numerous ways to turn a member of that class into a nigh unstoppable engine of death.
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another thing on Magus. if they take full attacks. they not only can do what I described above. But can make an off hand touch attack (-2/ to each attack) to do the SAME magic damage again. (or more)
Aren't magi supposed to have to choose? I believe they can either channel it through their blade or make a touch attack, not both. Although I could be mistaken.
Be aware of summoners. With some builds, they're fine, but they are pretty easy to trick out so they can solo adventures.
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Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. --If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks.-- This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
states he can use both. but still takes the penalties.
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. --If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks.-- This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
states he can use both. but still takes the penalties.
Still can only cast one spell a round so only one shocking grasp as part of his full attack.
Barbarians can be really nasty. Look out for the human ones with the Favored Class Bonus and Superstition.
Just for curiosities sake is this going to be at dundracon
no. fire and ice convention in manitowoc wisconsin.
Also where does it say he cab only cast one spell? I miss something?
Spell Combat allows you to use a full round action to full attack and cast a spell.
Spellstrike in this allows you to use that spell(if its a touch spell) to channel it through the blade and make a weapon attack.
If you can quicken a spell then I suppose that works too though.
Thanks really helpful. Considering it states he can use both abilities at once. Btw. A cleric can get a spell w/ free action cast. And quicken another for 3 spells a round.Also where does it say he cab only cast one spell? I miss something?In the same place it says dead characters can't attack.
What free action cast?
On a semi-related note ...
Are you intending to encourage PvP? Because if you say 'lone survivor', you are almost guaranteed to have characters trying to backstab one another.
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Also where does it say he cab only cast one spell? I miss something?Spell Combat allows you to use a full round action to full attack and cast a spell.
Spellstrike in this allows you to use that spell(if its a touch spell) to channel it through the blade and make a weapon attack.
If you can quicken a spell then I suppose that works too though.
After rereading it does seem to say that. But you gain a FREE attack at full bab. So two attacks at level 2 at full bab on full attack (one normal + free attack for casting spell correct)
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Thanks really helpful. Considering it states he can use both abilities at once. Btw. A cleric can get a spell w/ free action cast. And quicken another for 3 spells a round.Also where does it say he cab only cast one spell? I miss something?In the same place it says dead characters can't attack.
That's a new one on me.
After rereading it does seem to say that. But you gain a FREE attack at full bab. So two attacks at level 2 at full bab on full attack (one normal + free attack for casting spell correct)Also where does it say he cab only cast one spell? I miss something?Spell Combat allows you to use a full round action to full attack and cast a spell.
Spellstrike in this allows you to use that spell(if its a touch spell) to channel it through the blade and make a weapon attack.
If you can quicken a spell then I suppose that works too though.
It sure does.
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Your munchkin-ness will come from casters trying to be creative with their spells.
Another separate example.
GM-- "You see a wall"
PC-- "I split my plate in two."
GM-- "Ok"
PC-- "I put the two halves together on the wall"
GM--"Noted"
PC-- "I now step through the hole I just made."
GM-- "WHat?"
PC-- "Two halves make a whole."
Munchkin-ness and Power-gaming are two different things.
On a semi-related note ...
Are you intending to encourage PvP? Because if you say 'lone survivor', you are almost guaranteed to have characters trying to backstab one another.
Thats the whole point of this game. Make it through the adventure AND be the last pc standing.
Also where does it say he cab only cast one spell? I miss something?
Spellstrike is casting a touch spell and delivering it thru a free weapon attack. U can can run up on someone and do spellstrike because its just a standard action.
Spell combat is basically 2 weapon fighting meaning ur cast a spell in ur hand and doing ur full attacks. The spell does not have to be a touch spell but u do have to have a 1 handed or 1 handed light weapon. This a full round action.So spell strike by itself it basically using a standard action to cast a touch spell and get a free weapon attack (weilding a 1 handed or 2 handed weapon) for the spell to go off.
Spell combat is basically getting a spell off while u are doing all ur normal melee atks with a reg 1 handed or a 1 handed light weapon.
You can combine the 2 if u are weilding a 1 handed or light handed weapon and casting a touch spell and using a full round action. Meaning ur right at the person and u take all ur reg attacks and u can cast a touch spell and atk one more time to have it go off.
You CANNOT cast 2 spells in the same round. All it is a way to combine 2 different ways of casting a single spell in 1 round.
If someone brings a half elf oracle be ready for them to be able to cast any spell on the cleric/wizard list
That doesn't come online until level 11 because of the Improved Eldritch Heritage requirement.
Anyway Synthesist Summoner or Master Summoner might give you some issues. Synthesist is confusing and its easy to overlook rules in Eidolon building and Master Summoner can put out an army of summons at minutes per level.
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Paladin 2 / Oracle Lore Mystery 1 / Summoner Synthesis x. It allows for one to drop there physical stats and use the edilons. The charisma score now maxed because of this with out worry will govern there AC, Lore Oracle ability, and be added on to all there saves. This combo gives a very defensive character to both physical damage and save or suck spells.
Thats the whole point of this game. Make it through the adventure AND be the last pc standing.On a semi-related note ...
Are you intending to encourage PvP? Because if you say 'lone survivor', you are almost guaranteed to have characters trying to backstab one another.
In that case most of the usually choices won't work at well. Glass canons and Nova's won't be able to survive. This might be one of the few times that a monk is the right choice.
Most optimization is done to kill the enemy quickly so that your friends take less damage, but sense in this game survival is everything so super tanks are far more in fashion.
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So many things can come into play between magic items and how optimized they want to be. I would be more worried of players actually working together. Duo combos tend to be pretty lethal or people with leadership, like someone coming with his friend to participate in the game. Like if you see two rogues ratling...be prepared to see sneak attacks every round with their swarming racial ability.
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Thats the whole point of this game. Make it through the adventure AND be the last pc standing.On a semi-related note ...
Are you intending to encourage PvP? Because if you say 'lone survivor', you are almost guaranteed to have characters trying to backstab one another.
In that case most of the usually choices won't work at well. Glass canons and Nova's won't be able to survive. This might be one of the few times that a monk is the right choice.
Most optimization is done to kill the enemy quickly so that your friends take less damage, but sense in this game survival is everything so super tanks are far more in fashion.
or a wizard with lots of invisibility lol
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Wizards may be a good bet here. stay invisible whole dungeon (quite possible) stay out of the way, buff for a bit. then watch others fight at the end (if more than 1 survived) if not... your invisible... with tons of nice little spells at your disposal.
Monk is a good choice for this as well though I think. MoMS with cranestyle + drunken master seems quite good.
wait.... you set up a 'be the lone survivor' challenge and invited people to build their own 9th level characters and you don't want people to powergame?!? that scenario seems designed to encourage powergaming...
What really win this kind of games are things no-one came prepared for.
Like the Darkness-Casting Cleric with the Blindfight feat...
To bad Pierce the Veil only kicks in at level 11 or a oracle could really rock here.