| Pupsocket |
Depends on your definition of "battlemage". For someone who is mainly a mage, but is also capable with weapons, go EK. For someone who uses spells as well as swords to fight, go Magus.
Personally, I prefer the Magus.
Let's look at level 7, a good level for the EK. An early-entry EK casts like a 5th level Wizard (3. level spells) with a BaB of +6, and has a bonus combat feat, arcane school, arcane bond, and the 1. level abilities of a martial class of his choice.
A Magus also has 3rd level spells, but only a +5 BaB. Even with Spell Knowledge and Spell Recall, the EK is probably ahead in spell slots and versatility.
The EK is also wielding a Greatsword to the Magus' scimitar or rapier, and doing slightly more damage per hit.
But the EK is either casting or making 2 attacks. The Magus is casting AND making 2 attacks, with a better hit chance.
| Taku Ooka Nin |
How do you get to either PrC with only 2 levels in core classes?
That's said I've heard EKs described as wizards who can fight and magi as fighters who can cast.
Aasimar can cast Daylight as a SLA, paizo has stated that since PrCs are typically ~worse~ than just playing a class straight that they allow SLAs to qualify for PrCs.
It is literally just because the Aasimar can cast daylight that he qualifies for EK.It is possible to go Magus 1/EK10/HKE9, but not recommended in any way shape or form.
PrCs have specific benefits that players might be after. A Dex based character would be screwed if he went Dragon Disciple, while a character aiming to get his STR in the 40s will be all over it.
Thalin
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You don't even have to be an Aasimar; if you take Scryer as your Wizard you can do it AND get a strength (or intelligence)-bonus based class.
Magus makes the better "straight melee"; the magus-spell-specialized-shocking-grasp-scimitar wielder is pretty heavy damage. Eldritch knights (especially early-entry) eventually surpass as overall casters, and make excellent archers; but lacking any armor options worth using, it's hard to front-line them. I'm running an early-entry EK and they are quite effective; you get nearly the feats of a fighter, full caster level, 1 spell level behind full mage casting capability, and "BAB-1"... it makes for a diverse character. Plus you can enchant your bow (or whatever weapon) at half-price if you make it your arcane bond.
| nate lange RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
it forces you into aasimar, but a sohei gains all martial weapons, so a sohei 1/empyreal sorcerer 1 qualifies for eldritch knight and is better suited for not wearing armor than most fighty types (plus its funny when someone closes with your 'wizard' thinking they're gonna shut it down and then you just blast them with an unarmed strike)
but to address the first question- it really is a matter of preference which will be more fun, and largely a matter of level range which will be more effective... because magi cap at 6th level spells, the EK will pretty much always have the advantage at higher levels. i think the crossover is around 11th... before that the two builds have similar spell access and BAB but magi has the edge thanks to spell combat/spellstrike; after 11th the EK (assuming you started EK @3) has higher BAB and access to higher spell levels than the magus.
i think the question you really should ask is what kind of combatant you want to be- if you like the idea of a technical/finesse fighter, make a magus (nobody dishes out damage with just a rapier or scimitar like a magus), but if you want to be beefy and use a 2hander you're probably better off with the EK; neither is particularly well suited for sword&board, though either can do it with quickdraw shield shenanigans.
| Taku Ooka Nin |
it forces you into aasimar, but a sohei gains all martial weapons, so a sohei 1/empyreal sorcerer 1 qualifies for eldritch knight and is better suited for not wearing armor than most fighty types (plus its funny when someone closes with your 'wizard' thinking they're gonna shut it down and then you just blast them with an unarmed strike)
This is actually quite the nasty combination. I was looking through the monks to find something that scales with INT before looking at the Empryeal archetype. Oddly enough this could end up with the AC of a Tank (Max dex, max Wis) while having the doomsday spells of the glass cannon.
I'll have to try this if my Crafter small Familiar riding tiny Ratfolk witch gets killed in second darkness.If my DM strikes me down, I will only return more powerful than before (so long as it is before level 10)! Plus you save a small fortune on armor.
| Taku Ooka Nin |
To any that have played a magus, have any tried the blade bound archetype? I like the feel of them, but mechanically was wondering how they stacked up.
I made one that I was going to DM-NPC for one of my homebrew games, but someone came over and wanted to play so he played it.
It was a joke super-dumb-statted character with somewhere around 26-hp at level 6.But, and this is big, his AC was 30 with Mage Armor, at level 6--he was a Kensai.--
So Blade Bound: you cannot add specific special stuff like spell storing for a Shocking Grasp of Doom chain, but it is essentially free money. They limit your offensive choices, but this only lets you focus on your defense, so it is a give and take.
IF you are wondering the Kensai Bladebound's statistics were
Small (reduce person)
Str 8 (0)
Dex 24 (+7)
Con 5 (-3)
Int 22 (+6)
Wis 7 (-2)
Cha 7 (-2)
Ring of Protection +1
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
for
AC 30 (reduce person and mage armor), Touch 25 (Reduce person), Flat 17 (all of the above).
He was the epitome of glass cannon with 30-hp, and used a scimitar with Dervish Dance so he was quite damaging when he wanted to be.
He only died to an ambush from a Daemon that was invisible, could cast inflict Critical Wounds 1/day, and he failed his will save--go figure.-- His wonderful badassery was turned into an AC 11. He never saw it coming.
| Lao Haeris |
Let's look at level 7, a good level for the EK. An early-entry EK casts like a 5th level Wizard (3. level spells) with a BaB of +6, and has a bonus combat feat, arcane school, arcane bond, and the 1. level abilities of a martial class of his choice.
Hey. I am making also a EK (fighter 1/ wizard 5/ EK 2) with this order.
I am fairly new to the game so I wanted to ask you how did you got BAB +6 at 7th lvl with a wizard 5/EK 2 ?I thought that you add the existing BAB of each class you have. For example, wizard lvl 5 gets only +2 BAB and 2 lvl's in EK gives you only another +2 BAB, so in total you have +4.
Am I doing something wrong?
I am making also an archer EK (fighter 1/ wizard 5/ EK 2) with this order.
I am planning to take another lvl in EK and then 3 lvls in arcane archer, then probably EK all the way to enhance my archer power without forgetting my spellcasting, mainly for utility and control.
| Tholomyes |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pupsocket wrote:Let's look at level 7, a good level for the EK. An early-entry EK casts like a 5th level Wizard (3. level spells) with a BaB of +6, and has a bonus combat feat, arcane school, arcane bond, and the 1. level abilities of a martial class of his choice.Hey. I am making also a EK (fighter 1/ wizard 5/ EK 2) with this order.
I am fairly new to the game so I wanted to ask you how did you got BAB +6 at 7th lvl with a wizard 5/EK 2 ?
He didn't. Spell-like abilities count as spells for qualifying for prereqs (It's in the FAQ somewhere, I'm just too busy/lazy to look it up), and the Aasimar gets Daylight (a third level spell) as a SLA. Thus all you need is Fighter 1/Wizard 1/ EK 5. Then, you get 6 levels of Full BAB (fighter + EK), five levels of casting (Wizard +(EK -1)) and the abilities of the first level wizard and fighter.
Personally, EK is fun for theory-crafting, but I like the Magus more, because a) I can feel like a gish at level 1, and b) my games rarely make it to the high levels where EKs shine.
| nate lange RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
lao- there are a couple of way to get to level 8 as fighter 1/wizard 1/EK 8... that's how you get that BAB!
the key to this is that Spell-Like Abilities can be used as if they were spells for the purpose qualifying for feats and prestige classes. so, an aasimar (an unusual race of celestial humanoids) gets daylight as a SLA- that satisfies the requirement to be able to cast 3rd level spells (and lets them qualify as soon as they are proficient with all martial weapons). aasimars get a bonus to wisdom and charisma, though so they're not the best for wizards. any race can do the same thing as a wizard by choosing the divination school and the scryer specialty- that grants a clairvoyance SLA (which is also 3rd level).
edit: ninja'd
| nate lange RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
i also like that kind of build, psion. depending on what you're trying to accomplish with your build, i really enjoyed playing a dragon-knight; something like:
Angelkin Aasimar
1-> paladin 1
2-> paladin 2
3-> sorcerer[gold dragon] 1
4-> EK 1
5-> EK 2
6-9-> dragon disciple 1-4
10+-> EK 3+
that build definitely favors melee, but at 12th level has +10 BAB (better than magus) and access to 4th level spells (equal to magus)
ArmouredMonk13
|
I like playing the strength-based bladebound kensai magus. It is a bit squishy at low levels, but at around 4ish it starts getting some solid AC[through +1 Haramaki, 4+DexAC, and some decent HP], and at 5th level you can have 15-20/x3 weapon, or 17-20/x4 with a falcata, due to arcane pool investment. Bladebound is a solid archetype, because it saves you the cost of a weapon.
| Lao Haeris |
Thanks for the advice boys.
I am 8 lvl character.
So, going fighter 1/ wizard 5/ EK 2 is inferior to fighter 1/ wizard 1 / EK 6 right?
With the later, I still get the two feats from the fighter, still get the 1st lvl goodies from the wizard, and then go with EK to bump my BAB and I increase my caster lvl by 5 (from EK). so In total I cast like a 6 (5 from EK +1 from wizard) lvl wizard, while having +7 BAB ( 1 from fighter, 6 from EK), instead of having +4 BAB by going fighter 1/wizard 5/EK 2.
If I got it right, I wonder why would this build I saw suggested to go with fighter 1/wizard 5/ EK 2. :S
ps: All these, assuming that I chose divination and the scryer speciality for the 3d level SLA to qualify for EK.
Magda Luckbender
|
The EK is also wielding a Greatsword to the Magus' scimitar or rapier, and doing slightly more damage per hit.
But the EK is either casting or making 2 attacks. The Magus is casting AND making 2 attacks, with a better hit chance.
It seems a 'reach build' EK could cast and then get what AoOs become available. The Magus can't do that. This might close the gap in DPS.
I'm toying with starting a reach build EK for PFS who specializes in Rime Spell Burning Hands (Admixture). This would allow the PC to get 10' away from a foe, then blast them with Rimed Burning (Icy) hands. Since the foe gets no save vs the Rime entanglement the foe can not 5' step, which makes an AoO very likely. However, this is nearly a 'one trick pony' build, so maybe I won't. Opinions?
| Taku Ooka Nin |
I am 8 lvl character.
So, going fighter 1/ wizard 5/ EK 2 is inferior to fighter 1/ wizard 1 / EK 6 right?
The Wizard 5 build can get you +2 to any physical attribute if you go Transmutation school (the typical Wizard Gish school), and can give yourself an additional +2 to a physical attribute for 2 rounds (1/2 wiz level) as a standard due to Augment(Sp).
Fighter 1 gives you whatever you took for fighter (Unbreakable is a favored archetype of mine.)Saves
Wizard5+Fighter1+EK2
hp 42+[Con*8](10+4+4+4+4+4+6+6)
BAB 5(2+1+2)
Fort 4(1+2+1)
Ref 2(1+0+1)
Will 5(4+0+1)
Stat array Int>Str>Con>Dex>Wis>Cha
+2 to attribute
1 bonus combat feat from EK
1 bonus combat feat from Fighter
2 wizard bonus feats
Wizard school level 5
With Magical Knack Caster Level 8
Casts spells as though a level 6 wizard.
Wizard1+Fighter1+EK6
hp 50+[Con*8](10+4+6+6+6+6+6+6)
BAB 7(0+1+6)
Fort 5(0+2+3)
Ref 2(0+0+2)
Will 4(2+0+2)
Stat array Str>Con>Int>Dex>Wis>Cha
+1 to attribute
2 bonus combat feats from EK
1 bonus combat feat from Fighter
1 wizard bonus feat
Wizard school level 1
With Magical Knack Caster Level 8
Casts spells as though a level 6 wizard.
Wizard1+Fighter1+EK5+Arcane Archer1
hp 50+[Con*8](10+4+6+6+6+6+6+6)
BAB 7(0+1+5+1)
Fort 6(0+2+3+1)
Ref 3(0+0+2+1)
Will 4(2+0+2+0)
Stat array Dex>Str>Int>Con>Wis>Cha
+1 to attribute
Magic Arrows from Arcane Archer
2 bonus combat feats from EK
1 bonus combat feat from Fighter
1 wizard bonus feat
Wizard school level 1
With Magical Knack Caster Level 7
Casts spells as though a level 4 wizard.
Additional Creativity
Zen Archer8/empyreal Sorcerer1/Arcane Archer1/Eldritch Knight10
hp 113+[Con*20](8+5+5+5+5+5+5+5+4+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6)
BAB 17(6+0+1+10)
Fort 12(6+0+1+5)
Ref 10(6+0+1+3)
Will 11(6+2+0+3)
Stat array Wis>Str>Con>Dex>Int>Cha
Wisdom is your universal statistic that improves to hit and spell power.
Treated as fighter level 10 for feats.
Spell Critical!
Magic Arrows from Arcane Archer
3 bonus combat feats from EK
Sorcerer -- Eschew Materials
Sorcerer bloodline 1 (5 with sorcerer robe wondrous item)
With Magical Knack Caster Level 12
Casts spells as though a level 10 Sorcerer
Zen Archer8/empyreal Sorcerer1/Arcane Archer10/Eldritch Knight1
hp 113+[Con*20](8+5+5+5+5+5+5+5+4+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6)
BAB 17(6+0+10+1)
Fort 12(6+0+5+1)
Ref 11(6+0+5+0)
Will 11(6+2+3+0)
Stat array Wis>Str>Con>Dex>Int>Cha
Wisdom is your universal statistic that improves to hit and spell power.
Arrows are +1 magic, Have Distance, (Flaming/Icy/Shocking)burst, and Anarchic/Axiomatic/Holy/Unholy. Imbue arrows, Seeker Arrow, Phase Arrow, Hail of Arrows, and Arrow of Death (the DC will suck.)
1 bonus combat feats from EK
Treated at level 1 fighter.
Sorcerer -- Eschew Materials
Sorcerer bloodline 1 (5 with sorcerer robe wondrous item)
With Magical Knack Caster Level 10.
Casts spells as though a level 8 Sorcerer. (spell level 4th max)
| Tholomyes |
Wizard1+Fighter1+EK5+Arcane Archer1
hp 50+[Con*8](10+4+6+6+6+6+6+6)
BAB 7(0+1+5+1)
Fort 6(0+2+3+1)
Ref 3(0+0+2+1)
Will 4(2+0+2+0)
Stat array Dex>Str>Int>Con>Wis>Cha
+1 to attribute
Magic Arrows from Arcane Archer
2 bonus combat feats from EK
1 bonus combat feat from Fighter
1 wizard bonus feat
Wizard school level 1
With Magical Knack Caster Level 7
Casts spells as though a level 4 wizard.
Shouldn't it be as a level 5 wizard? Since Wizard 1 + EK 2-5?
Also, note that the Transmutation bonus is an enhancement bonus, so it wouldn't stack with a Belt of Giant Strength. Just of note.
| Taku Ooka Nin |
Shouldn't it be as a level 5 wizard? Since Wizard 1 + EK 2-5?
Also, note that the Transmutation bonus is an enhancement bonus, so it wouldn't stack with a Belt of Giant Strength. Just of note
Yeah, it would be Wizard level 5.
You would switch the enhance to something else when you get the belt.It basically means you can balance out a char more by having a statistic be 17 instead of 18. That is 4 point buy to play with.
| Taku Ooka Nin |
Another build is this:
Zen Archer3/empyreal Sorcerer1/Arcane Archer10/Eldritch Knight6
hp 118+[Con*20](8+5+5+4+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6)
BAB 18(2+0+10+6)
Fort 11(3+0+5+3)
Ref 10(3+0+5+2)
Will 10(3+2+3+2)
Stat array Wis>Str>Con>Dex>Int>Cha
Wisdom is your universal statistic that improves to hit and spell power.
Arrows are +1 magic, Have Distance, (Flaming/Icy/Shocking)burst, and Anarchic/Axiomatic/Holy/Unholy. Imbue arrows, Seeker Arrow, Phase Arrow, Hail of Arrows, and Arrow of Death (the DC will suck.)
2 bonus combat feats from EK
Treated at level 6 fighter.
Sorcerer -- Eschew Materials
Sorcerer bloodline 1 (5 with sorcerer robe wondrous item)
With Magical Knack Caster Level 18.
Casts spells as though a level 13 Sorcerer. (spell level 6th max)
To modify this for level 8
Zen Archer3/empyreal Sorcerer1/Arcane Archer4
hp 46+[Con*20](8+5+5+4+6+6+6+6)
BAB 6(2+0+4)
Fort 5(3+0+2)
Ref 5(3+0+2)
Will 5(3+2+1)
Stat array Wis>Str>Con>Dex>Int>Cha
Wisdom is your universal statistic that improves to hit and spell power.
Arrows are +1 magic, (Flaming/Icy/Shocking)
Sorcerer -- Eschew Materials
Sorcerer bloodline 1 (5 with sorcerer robe wondrous item)
With Magical Knack Caster Level 6.
Casts spells as though a level 4 Sorcerer. (spell level 2nd max)
At 20 point buy this might look like
Str 22(17+2[Racial]+1+2[Belt Giant's strength]4,000-gp)
Dex 10
Con 10
wis 22(17+2[Racial]+1+2[Headband of inspired wisdom]4,000-gp)
Int 8
Cha 7
+3 Composite +6 Longbow (18,000-gp)
Your Longbow would be
+15/+10 (1d10+9+1d6[fire/cold/shocking])
Flurry of Blows
+16/+16/+11 (1d10+9+1d6[fire/cold/shocking])
Base AC without Bracers of armor would be
AC 16, Touch 16, Flat footed 16)
You could cast Gravity Bow to make arrows do 2d8 instead of 1d10.
| nate lange RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
It seems a 'reach build' EK could cast and then get what AoOs become available. The Magus can't do that. This might close the gap in DPS.
I'm toying with starting a reach build EK for PFS who specializes in Rime Spell Burning Hands (Admixture). This would allow the PC to get 10' away from a foe, then blast them with Rimed Burning (Icy) hands. Since the foe gets no save vs the Rime entanglement the foe can not 5' step, which makes an AoO very likely. However, this is nearly a 'one trick pony' build, so maybe I won't. Opinions?
my opinion is that this could make for a solid build that doesn't rely on your 'one trick' (but can still benefit from it). as you said, the AoOs make up for missing out on spell combat/spellstrike (at least somewhat)- this is especially true at higher levels when many/most melee casters are making frequent use of monstrous physique and/or giant form spells for combat buffs (both of which will noticeably expand your threatened area).
you might get sick of always opening with a rime 'icy' burning hands... but like i said, i don't think you'll be totally reliant on it and it will be effective when its working. do consider looking for a way to get proficiency with the fauchard though (spell critical, the EK capstone, can help a lot with that action economy too).
| Cap. Darling |
To any that have played a magus, have any tried the blade bound archetype? I like the feel of them, but mechanically was wondering how they stacked up.
The blade bound is great flavor. If it is better it worse mechanicaly depends on different things. If you are in a game where WBL is being enforced or one of the dreaded low magic games then the AT is amazing but if every one have +4 swords by level 6 it is no fun being stuck with a Black blade. The littel hit you take to arcane pool is annoying but ni biggie. Only Real thing is that you dont get a magus Arcana until level 6 but there is lots if feats a magus want before he want to take extra Arcana. I love my BB magus.
| XMorsX |
rorek55 wrote:To any that have played a magus, have any tried the blade bound archetype? I like the feel of them, but mechanically was wondering how they stacked up.The blade bound is great flavor. If it is better it worse mechanicaly depends on different things. If you are in a game where WBL is being enforced or one of the dreaded low magic games then the AT is amazing but if every one have +4 swords by level 6 it is no fun being stuck with a Black blade. The littel hit you take to arcane pool is annoying but ni biggie. Only Real thing is that you dont get a magus Arcana until level 6 but there is lots if feats a magus want before he want to take extra Arcana. I love my BB magus.
Bladebound is a fine archetype, but you cannot qualify for the Extra Arcana feat before 6th before you lack the Arcana feature. This is the major drawback of the archetype and why a straight Magus is generally a bit more effective, especially early in his career.
| Cap. Darling |
Cap. Darling wrote:Bladebound is a fine archetype, but you cannot qualify for the Extra Arcana feat before 6th before you lack the Arcana feature. This is the major drawback of the archetype and why a straight Magus is generally a bit more effective, especially early in his career.rorek55 wrote:To any that have played a magus, have any tried the blade bound archetype? I like the feel of them, but mechanically was wondering how they stacked up.The blade bound is great flavor. If it is better it worse mechanicaly depends on different things. If you are in a game where WBL is being enforced or one of the dreaded low magic games then the AT is amazing but if every one have +4 swords by level 6 it is no fun being stuck with a Black blade. The littel hit you take to arcane pool is annoying but ni biggie. Only Real thing is that you dont get a magus Arcana until level 6 but there is lots if feats a magus want before he want to take extra Arcana. I love my BB magus.
what extra Arcana do you want to take at 3 or 5?
| XMorsX |
XMorsX wrote:what extra Arcana do you want to take at 3 or 5?Cap. Darling wrote:Bladebound is a fine archetype, but you cannot qualify for the Extra Arcana feat before 6th before you lack the Arcana feature. This is the major drawback of the archetype and why a straight Magus is generally a bit more effective, especially early in his career.rorek55 wrote:To any that have played a magus, have any tried the blade bound archetype? I like the feel of them, but mechanically was wondering how they stacked up.The blade bound is great flavor. If it is better it worse mechanicaly depends on different things. If you are in a game where WBL is being enforced or one of the dreaded low magic games then the AT is amazing but if every one have +4 swords by level 6 it is no fun being stuck with a Black blade. The littel hit you take to arcane pool is annoying but ni biggie. Only Real thing is that you dont get a magus Arcana until level 6 but there is lots if feats a magus want before he want to take extra Arcana. I love my BB magus.
Arcane Accuracy is a must, Familar is excellent too, Spell Shield is a potential choice, as are Wand Wielder and Rod Wielder for some builds. For the Hexcrafters, Hex Arcana is great too, and any Hexcrafter will want access to Arcane Accuracy and Slumber as fast as possible.
I am not saying that Bladebound is a bad archetype, it does what it is supposed to do just fine. I think that it is nice balanced. But, purely from a power level, it is a bit of a downgrade IMO. Unless of course special circumstances exist, like you play in a low-magic campaign, there is a lack of available magic items for purchase etc., when it has the potential for even being overpowered.
Thalin
|
I'm actually doing Paladin (Divine Hunter 1) -> Wizard (Scryer) -> EK. I am human (Scryer qualifies as well as any Aasimar) for extra feats.
The Divine Hunter lets me get the same feat setup as a fighter, but with a +2 will save, a 1/day "get out of DR free" card (and add +1 to damage) in smite evil, protection from evil, and +2 Will (letting me dump Wis more safely, as this character is very MAD).
Stats:
Human Divine Hunter 1 / Wizard (Scryer) 1 / EK 5
Str: 14
Int: 14 (16 after int item)
Wis: 7
Dex: 19 (20 for level, 22 for Dex Item)
Con: 14
Chr: 7
Attack: +12/+12/+12/+7 (before buffs that are usually up, like heroism, or PBS)
Damage: d8+10 / shot
Feats:
1) Pal 1- PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
2) Spell Focus (Conjuration) (PFS, so you get a spell focus)
3) Arcane Strike, Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow)
5) Deadly Aim
7) Weapon Spec (Composite Longbow), Multishot
It's quite quite good... +6 BAB @ 7, 3rd level spells, and the bow is now up to +2 for 4000 GP (instead of 8000) thanks to the price discount.
| Jurkal |
I like playing the strength-based bladebound kensai magus. It is a bit squishy at low levels, but at around 4ish it starts getting some solid AC[through +1 Haramaki, 4+DexAC, and some decent HP], and at 5th level you can have 15-20/x3 weapon, or 17-20/x4 with a falcata, due to arcane pool investment. Bladebound is a solid archetype, because it saves you the cost of a weapon.
What weapon gives 15-20 x3 crit?
| Wu Nakitu |
ArmouredMonk13 wrote:I like playing the strength-based bladebound kensai magus. It is a bit squishy at low levels, but at around 4ish it starts getting some solid AC[through +1 Haramaki, 4+DexAC, and some decent HP], and at 5th level you can have 15-20/x3 weapon, or 17-20/x4 with a falcata, due to arcane pool investment. Bladebound is a solid archetype, because it saves you the cost of a weapon.What weapon gives 15-20 x3 crit?
You can add the Keen enchantment from your Arcane Pool to an 18-20 weapon.
| Tholomyes |
I'm actually doing Paladin (Divine Hunter 1) -> Wizard (Scryer) -> EK. I am human (Scryer qualifies as well as any Aasimar) (emphasis mine) for extra feats.
This is no quite true (at least the Aasimar part); Only the standard aasimar qualifies, as all of the X-blooded alternates have a second level spell as their SLA. Perhaps because they realized that it wasn't a good idea to allow early EK access.
| Liam Warner |
Just a quick post but my opinion magus synthasizes the two steams better but eldritch knight can wind up better on saves, attack and spell casting (even if its only a little bit on the first two). Me personally I go for the eldritch knight as it gives me spells 7-9th level whereas magus is capped at 6th but magus doesn't have the feat penalties to cast in armour. At heart I'd say do you want to fight with casting as back up (magus) or cast with fighting as back up (eldritch knight).
Personally I go ranger/wizard/eldrtich knight (2, 8 and 10 respectively).
| Cap. Darling |
Cap. Darling wrote:XMorsX wrote:what extra Arcana do you want to take at 3 or 5?Cap. Darling wrote:Bladebound is a fine archetype, but you cannot qualify for the Extra Arcana feat before 6th before you lack the Arcana feature. This is the major drawback of the archetype and why a straight Magus is generally a bit more effective, especially early in his career.rorek55 wrote:To any that have played a magus, have any tried the blade bound archetype? I like the feel of them, but mechanically was wondering how they stacked up.The blade bound is great flavor. If it is better it worse mechanicaly depends on different things. If you are in a game where WBL is being enforced or one of the dreaded low magic games then the AT is amazing but if every one have +4 swords by level 6 it is no fun being stuck with a Black blade. The littel hit you take to arcane pool is annoying but ni biggie. Only Real thing is that you dont get a magus Arcana until level 6 but there is lots if feats a magus want before he want to take extra Arcana. I love my BB magus.Arcane Accuracy is a must, Familar is excellent too, Spell Shield is a potential choice, as are Wand Wielder and Rod Wielder for some builds. For the Hexcrafters, Hex Arcana is great too, and any Hexcrafter will want access to Arcane Accuracy and Slumber as fast as possible.
I am not saying that Bladebound is a bad archetype, it does what it is supposed to do just fine. I think that it is nice balanced. But, purely from a power level, it is a bit of a downgrade IMO. Unless of course special circumstances exist, like you play in a low-magic campaign, there is a lack of available magic items for purchase etc., when it has the potential for even being overpowered.
I must admit that i am having non of the arcanas you mention. I can undestand that folks like arcane arcuracy but with around 4 battle a Day i dont have any arcane pool points to spare i F i am aftale not to hit i just dont power attack. I took power attack at level 3 and weapon focus at 5 along with extra arcane pool.
| XMorsX |
I wonder how a fighter 1/(scryer) wizard 1/EK 10/arcane archer 8 would hold up as a ranged combatant. or myrmidarch magus 4/EK 10/AA 6 for ranged spellstrike shenanigans.
I have read similar older threads. It seems that eldrich knight is stronger than arcane archer as an archer too because ha does not lose caster lvls. However, there is potential with the imbue arrow ability, so it can be done effectively with the progression below:
Martial (fighter/divine hunter paladin) 1 / wizard (scryer) 1 / Eldrich Knight 5 / Arcane Archer 4 (only one caster lvl lost) / Eldrich Knight 5 / Hellknight Signifer 4
Thalin
|
The only reason to AA is to be able to make Arrows of Anti-Magic :). Beyond that Warpriest (instead of Fighter) 1/Wizard 1/EK 10/Mystic Theurge 8 is probably the best setup you can do if you're going to REALLY high levels.
@ 20 you are:
*Caster level 20 wizard (18 for purposes of # spells available)
*Caster level 9 warpriest
*BAB +15 with your chosen weapons (+14 otherwise)
*Have a few minor blessings to throw around.
I barely took Divine Hunter over Warpriest; only because I wanted to be able to have access to Point Blank / Precise / Rapid @ level 1 (and the ability for an archer to 1/day ignore DR is nice @ low levels, before you start being able to afford holy bows and adementium arrows).
| stuart haffenden |
Hexcrafter Magus should be concidered as you gain great versatility. Blast if you want but you can be a great debuffer too with frostbite/rime/ enforcer to grant the monster some truly horrible debuffs in one hit - fatigue/entangle/shaken making them easy to hit and at -6 to hit you. That's like having an AC 6 points higher. And that's all before you've evil eyed them beforehand. And your familiar can ill omen them to or grease! and a faerie dragon is a sorc so he can wand away in all manner of ways too. Example, pot a heroism and get it to cast moment of greatness on you every round so you can make the +2 heroism bonus +4 or he can magic missile away each turn etc etc.
At least look at the possibility before you decide.
As others have said it comes down to what you want to actually do each round.
Have fun and be versatile!