So, I'm starting a Wrath of the Righteous game, and as that means some high levels and high power, I've been trying to think of ways to keep the high level game a lot of fun.
The two things I've seen people mention the most so far are the 'rocket tag' effect and the large differences in certain bonuses. Here are some ideas to help with those.
I'm not sure where all the problem with large differences in bonuses applies, but for saves, what would it do to change all classes low saves to always be 2 less than the high saves, like they are at 1st level? That way, at 20th, your low saves would be +10. I'm not sure how best to get this to work with multi-classing, but, aside from that, does anyone see anything immediately game breaking about this?
For the 'rocket tag', which seems to come a lot from save or die spells, what if they were just as effective but took longer to reach the end result? For example, a death spell that on a failed save makes you sickened or nauseated, then leaves you nauseated or dying, then dead. No save after the first roll, but that leaves time for someone to throw out a healing spell, maybe, or some anti-death effect? I don't remember if there are any of those, so maybe this would also take allowing healing spells to have some counteracting effect while the death spell was still running its course.
Or Flesh to Stone leaving you entangled on your first failed save, then petrifying you, with a possibility of something 1 level lower than stone to flesh being able to counteract it?
Thoughts?
EDIT: I should add that the group I'm playing with will likely not be heavy into optimization, for what difference that might make.
Actually rocket tag doesnt come from save or die effects, they add to it, but rocket tag comes from the fact that most things at higher levels cannot survive a full attack or two from something level appropriate. If a dragon full attacks one player they are unconcious, probably dead, and the same goes for most monsters vs 1 or 2 full attacks from a pc.
Actually rocket tag doesnt come from save or die effects, they add to it, but rocket tag comes from the fact that most things at higher levels cannot survive a full attack or two from something level appropriate. If a dragon full attacks one player they are unconcious, probably dead, and the same goes for most monsters vs 1 or 2 full attacks from a pc.
Oh. So maybe having something like a dragon tend to spread out its attacks, while providing PCs with lots of targets? Would buffing single monster vs. PC groups hp help or do dragons (for example) have enough already?
Hiya.
Or, for something really crazy, don't allow +#'s to damage. So that Gargantuan Abbyssal monstrosity doesn't do "3d6+15"...it does 3d6. An adult blue dragon's bite doesn't do "2d8+12", it does 2d8. And yes, the barbarian doing 1d12+14 now does 1d12.
Stronger, magical, or some other adjustment can be used for non-combat stuff, as usual (e.g., bonus to make a skill check or save). But, dropping the sometimes rediculous bonuses to damage would cut waaaaay down on rocket-tag.
*shrug* Just a thought.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
Hiya.
Or, for something really crazy, don't allow +#'s to damage. So that Gargantuan Abbyssal monstrosity doesn't do "3d6+15"...it does 3d6. An adult blue dragon's bite doesn't do "2d8+12", it does 2d8. And yes, the barbarian doing 1d12+14 now does 1d12.
Stronger, magical, or some other adjustment can be used for non-combat stuff, as usual (e.g., bonus to make a skill check or save). But, dropping the sometimes rediculous bonuses to damage would cut waaaaay down on rocket-tag.
*shrug* Just a thought.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
My knee jerk reaction is to really like this idea, with maybe a couple exceptions, like a rogue's sneak attack, unless there's another good way to give a bonus for that?
I'm trying to think if there's anything that would become useless without damage bonuses. Strength would still help to-hit, magic weapons also. Power attack could probably be an exception since it's self-limiting. It seems like this would also make a lot of blast spells relatively more effective than before.
Also, it seems the save thing is already being presently discussed a couple threads over, so please disregard.
The good news is: high levels don't actually hit everyone the same way.
The bad news: trying to predict this stuff way in advance is almost impossible. Better to try and muddle through, and be sure to have frequent discussions with players about how they think the game is going. If something is so bad that they all agree they want to change the rules, then you start worrying about changes.
Change a bunch of stuff too early and watch as your "fixes" become problems unto themselves.