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looking for feedback on fast speeds and jumping. heres the question I have in mind. lets say I have an animal companion that is a horse(racer) grants +10 foot to base move speed for 60ft run feat adds x5 movement and a +4 modifer to jump checks. racers gain an ability at 6th level that allows them to run at x10 the base speed for 1 round but does not list any bonus to jump checks. so my question is would you assume that a x10 speed would add a +24 bonus to jump checks based on the rules for run?
horse(racer) 600ft covered in 6 seconds. roughly 68.2 mph
option 1: no it doesn't increase jump distance. +12 racial bonus to jump
option 2: yes it increases jump distance. +36 racial bonus to jump
example creature quickling 480ft in 6 seconds. roughly 54.5 mph
+36 racial bonus to jump checks.
I'm inclined to believe option 2 is correct but cannot find any hard evidence to support it other than... it makes more sense. appreciate any feedback on the subject.
Thanks
There is no further ability boost to jump checks beyond what it says. The mount gets +12 to its jump from its 60 ft base movement and +4 from the aability.the 1 per day boost of speed does not change tbe mounts base speed ergo increase in jumping.
The rules for Acrobatics and Faster Base Movement refer to base land speed, which for the horse in question is 60 feet. It doesn't matter how far the horse moves in a round or what kind of multiplier you can apply to the base speed, because the actual base speed is staying the same.
The rule is also +4 racial bonus for every 10 feet above 30 feet or -4 racial bonus for every 10 feet below 30 feet. If that were +4/10>30 traveled per round, rather than base speed...600 feet in one round would give a +228, not +36, racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump.
the logic behind the 600 ft movement was based on the fact that it can move at a x10 speed for 1 round. The run feat states that its grants x5 movement speed when you run and a +4 to acrobatics checks to jump when you have a running start. this along with the rule of every ten feet above thirty feet of base movement adds a +4 to jump checks would suggest that a creature moving at x10 speed a multiplier differential of 6 from the average x4 would gain a 6x4=+24 racial bonus to jump during that movement. 60 ft base move speed grants an additional +12 racial to jump for a grand total of +36 racial bonus. before reading on answer this question. in this scenario which would you expect to be able to jump further
A:a horse moving at 68 mph
B:a horse moving at 9 mph
so a zombie horse wearing horseshoes of speed for a speed of 80ft can only take a single action per round because zombies are slow moves roughly 9mph gets a +20 to jump checks making it capable of a 40ft horizontal jump. and then you have the speedy race horse capable of speeds up to 68 mph with a possibility of a 32 foot horizontal jump. okay now put these two side by side in your head and say they have to run 30 feet jump a 20 foot gap and then run 30 more feet to a finish line. The fast race horse completes this task in .8 seconds with a .2 second hang time. so this is a moderately difficult jump for this horse to get off the ground for 2 tenths of a second. zombie horse completes this task in 6 seconds with a 1.5 second hangtime and the jump is unfailable. fyi michael jordans hang time is about .9 seconds.
So the question is between A or B which logically makes more sense? if you answered A then you believe in the ruling that in general things that move faster can go farther. anyone answering B is just being silly. I think I'm just gonna house rule this one in this format and remove the +4 bonus to jump for higher than normal base speeds and base it off of your total capable movement distance in 1 round. like this.
0-49ft=-8
50-99=-4
100-149=0
150-199=+4
200-249=+8
250-299=+12
300-349=+16
350-399=+20
400-449=+24
450-499=+28
500-549=+32
550-599=+36
600-649=+40
take this chart apply it to the previous scenario with the creatures total capable speed in 1 round and ask yourself does this make more sense than the way the rules currently are?
What we are trying to tell you is as far as the rules are concerned logic does not matter. The once per round burst of speed has no effect on jumping. If its a home game change it if you want but the rules themselves are clear on this.
if thats the case then why apply a +4 racial bonus to jump checks for having faster than average speed? or a -4 for slower than average speed?
When a ninja uses his ki ability to increase his speed by 20ft for 1 round why does he get a bonus to the jump check? If logic did not matter then they would not have put these rules in place.
The entire game is built on general rules and exceptions. The feat can give you what the author wants it to give you.
In simple terms a human can run 120 feet in a full round action. His base move is still 30.
In the case of the ninja it changes the base speed.
and the authors who write this base these abilities off of logic. because 120ft in a round is 13.6 mph. that is very close to average running speed for a full grown man. now that we have established that these numbers that are assigned are not randomly drawn from a hat and are based on real world calculations at the core. do you feel that they did not want the x10 run speed to affect jump and intentionally left it out or that this is such a minor ability and very few access it in this manner that it was an oversight on the development team?
Think of it this way if multiplying your base speed resulted in increased jumping an untrained commoner coukd jump 37 feet on a 1. Or wn easy way to look at it is you've done an awful lot of math for an apparently limited ability.
The small cat animal companion haw a similar ability with no jump boost.
untrained commoner would never jump that far by the rules even if the multiplier factors in. heres why.
30ft base speed- this is the basis for all the calculations
x4 run speed- this is also the basis for all the calculations hence the term running start.
Run feat- x5 movement with run and a +4 bonus to jump checks with running start. this suggests that moving faster increases the ability to jump just as does increasing base speed.
if you had a human commoner his base speed is 30ft. he has no modifers to jump as he is running off of the baseline for movement and multipliers on a roll of 1 he would jump 1 foot.
the small cat has a similar ability with no bonuses you are correct there. my line of thinking is that this particular ability being very limited in its use has been overlooked by development.
You kind of missed my point. Running extra fast doesn't increase your jump just base speed the fact that you had to create math to guess the bonus or figure out the speed in mph kind of supports that the game never intended the ability to give a boost. But at the end of the day its your game.
Is this 10x movement speed a modification of the base speed for that round, or does it replace the "5x" of a run action? Because a horse moving 3000 feet in a round seems absurd, but moving 600 instead of 300 makes a lot more sense - IRL race horses are good for one "burst" of speed in a race, and a lot of the outcome has to do with timing when to use it.
The 10x replaces the 5x.
Nevermind I found what I needed James Jacobs wrote this. back in like 2010
James Jacobs
I'm 99% sure "base land speed" means the same as "land speed." But it applies to your land speed at the time you make the jump. You wouldn't get the bonus when you're standing still.
I agree that it's worded awkwardly, but in cases like this it's best to apply a dose of logic and common sense; if someone were moving faster than someone else when they jumped, logically they would go further than the slower person.