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Hiya all,
I tried doing a search on this topic but couldn't find the answers to these questions:
1. When a Druid Wild Shapes into another form, do they receive the feats that animal/beast has in its stat block in the Bestiary?
2. How do you calculate AC when you shift forms? Do you use your base AC modified by the size of the form you've taken? Do you get to keep any Natural Armor the creature has?
3. I understand armor you wear doesn't help your AC while you're Wild Shaped. However, I have read conflicting things about shields. Do you still get a shield bonus to AC when you're Wild Shaped?
Cheers all, and Happy New Year!
1) No with exceptions. The exceptions are listed in the Beast Shape spells that describes how the wildshape works. For instance, at level 6 you can transform into a large creature per Beast Shape 2, and you choose to shift into a Dire Tiger. The Dire Tiger gets POUNCE, and under Beast Shape 2 you'll see that you also get POUNCE, so you now have it (you don't get POUNCE unless the creature you wildshape into gets it). Now, you'll also notice that the Dire Tiger can use RAKE. But RAKE is listed under Beast Shape 3 ability. So, you wont be able to use the RAKE ability until you get access to that wildshape form (level 8 as base Druid). Hope that makes sense. The beast shape spells tell you what you get if the creature you transform into has that ability. You won't get the improved critical or improved initiative of the creature.
2) Yes, you modify your AC for size. You do not get to keep any natural armor the creature has. Instead, you are granted a natural armor bonus per the Beast Shape spell description, which basically depends upon the size of the creature.
So, going back to the Dire Tiger under Beast Shape 2 (level 6+ for base druid). You get the +4 bonus to natural armor to whatever armor class you have. You'll also take a penalty for the size (Large) as well as a potential penalty for a lower Dex (-2). You never start with the AC of the creature.
3) If your shield also has the wildshape bonus, then you also get the shield bonus. The thing to remember about wildshape is that when magical items meld into your form, you only get the constant bonus; you can't activate anything (unless your GM allows it somehow). Now, there is a long-running debate as to whether or not you ONLY get the magical bonus to the AC, or you get the armor bonus plus the magical bonus to the AC when using wildshape. Given how very expensive +wild is on armor, we allowed it to provide both the armor and the +1 enchantment bonus. Hence, putting +wild on a wooden shield that would only provide a modest benefit is probably not your best use of coin to improve your AC.
If you have further questions, post or just send me message.
1) No.
2) You get the natural armor bonus of the spell referred to by Wild Shape, plus the normal base 10. Things like amulets and rings with AC would still work while transformed.
3) You do not get a shield or armor bonus while wild shaped, unless the equipment has the Wild enhancement on it. This is fairly expensive, but it does help as you no longer suffer and ACP or restriction while wild shaped, but you gained the benefits of wearing armor.
You might wish to read the Polymorph section in the Magic chapter in the CRB for a good refresher on the subject. It breaks down in more detail exactly what changes and what stays the same when you transform.
Happy New Year to you too.
Moondragon Starshadow has you covered... just want to confirm that everything in their post is correct.
Although the part in number 3, it should be pointed out is a bit of a typo.... I imagine they meant the "Wild Special Armor Property" not the "Wildshape Bonus"
"Wild" armor does provide its bonus while you are shaped, but it is quite pricey.... it costs a +3 enhancement bonus... and since you need a +1 minimum before special abilities, that means that you will be paying 16,000gp to get a +1 Wild Shield or Suit of Armor.
Still... not a terrible trade at the higher levels.. 16,000 will afford you a +4 Bracers of Armor, or you could pay the same cost for a +1 Wild Breastplate.... which will give you +7 AC. So, not a bad idea overall... unless you have armor properties that you really want (like Rhino hide or something).
Er, yes, the Wild Special property. It's a +3 bonus to the armor, so assuming you apply it to a +1 item, that's 16,000 gold total as Lord Malkov mentioned.
The armor a druid really wants is Dragonhide Plate with the +wild enhancement. You'll need the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat to use it, but it's non-metal and essentially full-plate armor bonus. So, that total is about 19,300 gold if I remember correctly. Given how often you'll be in melee combat, I think it's worth it.
So, after you get that, the other item you really want is the Amulet of Mighty Fists +5 (ideally), which under the FAQ is 50,000gp. While that's a lot of coin, it allows you to by-pass just about every damage reduction there is (read the FAQ). Plus, assuming you're using greater magic fang (long-lasting buff), that will by-pass the magical damage reduction as well, so you're covered on all fronts.
Assuming you're going to be in Dire Tiger form for a long time, you should get a tiger/lion companion, so you can talk to your companion in wildshape (since you share the same language). Lastly, you'll want to take improved natural attack (claws), since at level 8 when you charge (+2 attack bonus) and POUNCE, you'll get 1 bite, 2 claw and 2 RAKE (claw-based) attacks all at full-attack bonus. Yeah, that will kill just about anything as long as your past the damage resistance part with the amulet of mighty fists. And if you don't kill it, you'll have it in grapple with +GRAB on your 3 primary attacks (GRAB is graned in Beast Shape 2, RAKE in Beast Shape 3).
So, after you get that, the other item you really want is the Amulet of Mighty Fists +5 (ideally), which under the FAQ is 50,000gp. While that's a lot of coin, it allows you to by-pass just about every damage reduction there is (read the FAQ). Plus, assuming you're using greater magic fang (long-lasting buff), that will by-pass the magical damage reduction as well, so you're covered on all fronts.
It's 50,000 to create the +5 AoMF, but it's 100,000 to buy...
It's 50,000 to create the +5 AoMF, but it's 100,000 to buy...
So, after you get that, the other item you really want is the Amulet of Mighty Fists +5 (ideally), which under the FAQ is 50,000gp. While that's a lot of coin, it allows you to by-pass just about every damage reduction there is (read the FAQ). Plus, assuming you're using greater magic fang (long-lasting buff), that will by-pass the magical damage reduction as well, so you're covered on all fronts.
Yep... it is still disturbingly overpriced....
Basically, an AoMF costs the same as two equally enchanted weapons.
So, Bonus squared times 4,000gp.
Regular weapons are bonus squared times 2,000gp.
Cheers all, thanks for the info, that's very helpful. Out of curiosity, since wildshaping druids have low AC and not a great deal of HP, how do they not get killed all the time?
1. When a Druid Wild Shapes into another form, do they receive the feats that animal/beast has in its stat block in the Bestiary?
No.
If a product doesn't say that it grows hair, then it doesn't.
2. How do you calculate AC when you shift forms? Do you use your base AC modified by the size of the form you've taken? Do you get to keep any Natural Armor the creature has?
Same as you do any other time, but you have to start from scratch: usually 10+ natural armor + dex +deflection.
A stupid druid trick is, instead of getting the very expensive wild enchant, get barding made for yourself in your favorite combat form and then have the party dress you.
3. I understand armor you wear doesn't help your AC while you're Wild Shaped. However, I have read conflicting things about shields. Do you still get a shield bonus to AC when you're Wild Shaped?
Not without the wild enchant. I'm sure there's a munchkin argument because they forgot to mention shields specifically, but come on. You are not holding a shield as a squirrel, so why would you get the bonus?
Wild: The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape. Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be covered in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be seen.
Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, baleful polymorph; Price +3 bonus.
Definitely can be put on shields, definitely includes the enhancement bonus.
Thanks for the help all. I have another question: do any of you have an inkling as to why the developers made Wild Shape so complicated?
It just seems like it would've been much simpler to say "Use the appropriate stat block in the Bestiary".
Thanks for the help all. I have another question: do any of you have an inkling as to why the developers made Wild Shape so complicated?
It just seems like it would've been much simpler to say "Use the appropriate stat block in the Bestiary".
That opens itself up to all kinds of abuse that ran rampant in 3rd edition. Basically, Druidzilla was unstoppable from level four.
That opens itself up to all kinds of abuse that ran rampant in 3rd edition. Basically, Druidzilla was unstoppable from level four.Thanks for the help all. I have another question: do any of you have an inkling as to why the developers made Wild Shape so complicated?
It just seems like it would've been much simpler to say "Use the appropriate stat block in the Bestiary".
Yep...
And really, the other big thing is that this keeps your character's physical stats relevant, for good or for ill.
It also means that wildshaped forms scale more appropriately as you level.
As for getting a good AC, you certainly can.
Huge animal is -4 dex, -2 AC from size, +6 natural armor.
By level 12 you can have a +1 suit of Wild Dragonhide Full-Plate for +10
Dex is probably going to be +0 with a belt of physical perfection on.
Barkskin is another +5 to natural armor.
Ring of protection +2 for another +2.
That totals out to AC 31.
A fighter at level 12 with the same dex of 14, full plate +4 (the equivalent of wild +1) and the same ring plus an amulet of natural armor +2 (which you wont have since you need an AoMF). Will have an AC of 29.
So its really not bad. If you take the favored class bonus for Half-Orc druid (+1/3 to nat armor when shaped per level) then you are up to AC 35. So its not bad at all.
You can also grab Planar Wild Shape to add on Resistance to Cold, Acid and Electricity 15 and DR 10/Evil and SR 17.
Thanks for the help all. I have another question: do any of you have an inkling as to why the developers made Wild Shape so complicated?
It just seems like it would've been much simpler to say "Use the appropriate stat block in the Bestiary".
yes actually. They wanted the freedom to make monsters without having to worry about what would happen if a druid turned into it and got that ability and combined it with a spell/high stat ability score etc. With wild shape more or less as a static buff its easier than how it used to be. I don't always need a binder full of forms i can turn into.
What you're describing is close to what 3.5 did and druids were.. horribly, horribly, brokenly overpowered. I mean wildshape is GOOD now, but with 3.5 it was broken as all get out: druids were the best fighters: hands, tentacles, and claws down.
It actually wouldn't be that bad if they'd put the wildshape, polymorph, and beast shape X rules on one page... as it is i need four pages from the same book out and open to cross reference what i can do. (the druid, the beast shape spell, the critter I'm turning into, and the polymorph section of the magic chapter where most of the information is)