Congratulations, you've just suggested the d&d equivalent of edward cullen. *facepalm* :P*shudders*
Congrats. You just made me utterly hate the concept.
Yep. Its one of the most irritating concepts whatsoever. I read the Drizzt books that have other cool main characters. Not to read about special snowflakes.
In golarion, undead are always evil, with the possible exception of ghosts. That includes vampire ex-paladins.
So, some restrictions on that.
Also, applying the vampire template to a character does turn them evil, you know.
==Aelryinth
You've already been corrected on this elsewhere, but hey, why not again?
"While a monster's size and type remain constant (unless changed by the application of templates or other unusual modifiers), alignment is far more fluid. The alignments listed for each monster represent the norm for those monsters—they can vary as you require them to in order to serve the needs of your campaign."
So, not true, at all. Plus, we aren't necessarily talking about Golarion (since PF is a rules set, not a campaign setting), so even if it were true, it would be completely irrelevant.
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People who play differently than you don't have spines? Weird. Hmm... Still have one. I must be an exception. I think anyway, I'm no doctor.Vampire paladin? Good to go!Yep ... go right to a game where the DM is an invertebrate.Oh, for goodness' sake. The PC police are out in force this Christmas Eve ... whoops, holiday season. [Rolls eyes.]
Is there some possible contrivance and/or convolution that might allow a vampire paladin? Sure. Is it far more likely that a browbeaten or permissive DM simply says either, "Kewl!" because he's twelve or "OK," because he's not got the cojones to say, "That's ridiculous; no"? Also yes.
I'm not precluding either possibility ... but we both know which one's more likely.
Or, you know, he knows the rules, and is smart enough to realize that any free-willed creature can choose its own moral and ethical path (aka alignment). But hey, better to throw around insults because people do things different from you, because that makes them bad people.
Yep. Its one of the most irritating concepts whatsoever. I read the Drizzt books that have other cool main characters. Not to read about special snowflakes.Congratulations, you've just suggested the d&d equivalent of edward cullen. *facepalm* :P*shudders*
Congrats. You just made me utterly hate the concept.
I was always more fond of how Eberron treated drow in regards to that race. More than a few players had drow as recurring villains because of something they did to tick a drow tribe off.
That said, the special snowflake version of that tale always rated as cheese for me. And tended to fail in the RP sessions in attempts to convince deities to let them be paladins. And, yes, I made them RP it out before they could do it; that tended to prevent most attempts because most players knew up front that their stories were not good enough to convince me.
I am not against evil-aligned races being played as good, but at the same time I am against it being something special. It's not; they're not the only ones of their kind, and acting like you're special tends to make paladins who hate those races suspicious ;)
Basically, if you draw too much attention to yourself, you find out what said attention warrants.
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Helm of Opposite Alignment.
No hand-wringing, no over-acting, no deliberate mis-reading of the rules.
I had a dual-class Red Wizard5/Paladin of Mystra9+ in 2nd ed, in a campaign against Thay. He was based on Nottingham from the Witchblade comic, and using an idea I got while reading the Complete Paladin's Handbook. In that book, paladins traditionally had (I think) seven virtues. Although not compulsory, paladins were expected to have at least five of the seven. I was only missing one: humility. I had a superiority complex.
I started out as a Red Wizard in the Griffon Legion, went on a mission for my Zulkir to retrieve a magic helmet, decided to take it for myself and it turned out to be a Helm of Opposite Alignment. A year of soul-searching later and my newly LG PC decided to dedicate himself to Mystra, and she ordained him as a paladin.
It was fun playing a paladin against type. Although his alignment had drastically changed, his personality....? Not so much. : )
Helm of Opposite Alignment is mind-affecting. Aren't most undead immune to mind-affecting stuff?
The requirement of a vampire to be evil would be his 'main' alignment, LG would be clearly artificial for a vampire. So an Atonement would 'revert' him back to being evil.
Now, if you raised him from the dead, yeah, it would forgive him for his evil vampire deeds. While undead? not so much.
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Oh, and that succubus is indeed changing her nature and her powers, she can now give her blessing to any number of people, and its based on being CG!
:)
At least they aren't trying to redo the paladin succubus thing.
===Aelryinth
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Helm of Opposite Alignment is mind-affecting.
No it isn't.
Helm of Opposite Alignment
Aura strong transmutation
When placed upon the head, this item's curse immediately takes effect (Will DC 15 negates). On a failed save, the alignment of the wearer is radically altered to an alignment as different as possible...
First, the magic is transmutation not enchantment.
Second, it's a curse and undead aren't immune to curses.
Third, magic is only mind-affecting if it has the mind-affecting descriptor. This item does not say it's mind affecting, so it isn't.
Undead have an alignment so they are subject to that alignment being altered by magic, same as anything else.
I dunno, man. I think forcibly reordering someone's mental processes into a wholesale change of their mores and values is pretty mind-affecting, don't you?
==Aelryinth
I dunno, man. I think forcibly reordering someone's mental processes into a wholesale change of their mores and values is pretty mind-affecting, don't you?
I think that's why this thread is about RAW and RAI don't quiet fit. Personally I don't get why all intelligent undead are totally immune to mind affecting when they do have minds.
Because their minds are completely warped and different or something.
Because their minds are completely warped and different or something.
Abberations aren't immune though.
Because their minds are completely warped and different or something.Abberations aren't immune though.
Huh.
My theory on why undead are immune:
Their brains are no longer functioning, and mind-affecting spells need at least some sort of functional biological processing center to affect normally.
However, there is a metamagic feat that changes that, so it's not that big of an issue...
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A monk with a buckler in his backpack, loses most of his AC because he is carrying a shield on him.
He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Its the same if he is carrying a ring of force shield while active, but he can raise his AC if he turns it off. Just as some more funny RAW stuff.
Keep in mind oozes, constructs and vermin are also immune to mind-affecting (mostly because they are mindless). Aberrations have a physiology that's unnatural, but they are also magical and sentient.
Undead are negative energy lifeforms, and obviously magic made to enthrall the minds of the living don't have any effect on the minds of the undead. Plenty of precedence for treating living and dead differently.
==Aelryinth
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Keep in mind oozes, constructs and vermin are also immune to mind-affecting (mostly because they are mindless). Aberrations have a physiology that's unnatural, but they are also magical and sentient.
Undead are negative energy lifeforms, and obviously magic made to enthrall the minds of the living don't have any effect on the minds of the undead. Plenty of precedence for treating living and dead differently.
==Aelryinth
Then you may consider the fact that, RAW, undead are affected by a Helm of Opposite Alignment to be 'funky RAW'.
I dunno, man. I think forcibly reordering someone's mental processes into a wholesale change of their mores and values is pretty mind-affecting, don't you?
==Aelryinth
Think of it like the Geass from the anime Code: Geass. It actually transforms part of your brain to manifest the effect. In the Geass' case (Lelouch's version at least) it gives you a compulsion to do whatever he told you to do. In the helm's case, it makes you change you alignment.
Especially fitting because, like the Geass, the helm will only work on you once.
I dunno, man. I think forcibly reordering someone's mental processes into a wholesale change of their mores and values is pretty mind-affecting, don't you?
==Aelryinth
Think of it like the Geass from the anime Code: Geass. It actually transforms part of your brain to manifest the effect. In the Geass' case (Lelouch's version at least) it gives you a compulsion to do whatever he told you to do. In the helm's case, it makes you change you alignment.
Especially fitting because, like the Geass, the helm will only work on you once.
And yet ... changing your alignment forcibly does nothing. Your actions determine your alignment, so changing your alignment doesn't change the way you act. You just ping funny to alignment-based effects for a while.
Because their minds are completely warped and different or something.Abberations aren't immune though.
They still get good Will saves, though, so it doesn't pose a real problem with the theory. Apparently, undead minds are MORE different than aberrations. Which actually makes sense if you consider the mind and body as being somewhat related... your mind is part of your life force. Undead function by an entirely different process.
They still get good Will saves, though, so it doesn't pose a real problem with the theory.Because their minds are completely warped and different or something.Abberations aren't immune though.
A strong will save means you have a strong will. Now people are just making things up to assist their own theories. Who needs logic when you have other people to argue for you, eh?
Oh gods YES.Spontaneous Casting: A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that she did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can “lose” any prepared spell that is not an orison or domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with “cure” in its name).
Obscure Object
Secure Shelter
Took me a while but I get it now. Funny.
Maybe there should also be a manicure/pedicure spell.
The Helm of Opposite Alignment was one of those idiotic things that dates back to old AD&D. In those days there were no rules about cursed items being made by screwing up the enchanting process; items would have a curse on them by design or would be cursed as a result of their environment.
It`s a pretty stupid item to deliberately make though. Imagine the evil necromancer crafting one in order to subvert his arch enemy Bob the Paladin.
Scenario 1: after crafting the helm, the necromancer gets ready to send it to Bob the Paladin. However, he fails to warn his guards appropriately and the leader of his tower guards steals it, puts it on and changes himself to LG. Suddenly realizing the error of his ways he helps Bob overthrow the necromancer and is hailed as a hero in the local town. Maybe Bob even takes him on as a sidekick.
Scenario 2: after receiving the helm as a mysterious gift, Bob foolishly puts it on and his alignment becomes CE instead of LG. Bob turns into an Antipaladin (now named Anti-Bob), leaves his hometown after doing some despicable deeds there, and rides out to meet the necromancer. The necromancer grins evilly as he prepares to welcome Anti-Bob into his allegiance. But Anti-Bob whips out his sword and plunges it into the neck of the necromancer, shouting `Die wizard! All your chattels are now mine!`
Changing alignment doesn`t necessarily change what side you are on or make you friends with people of the same alignment as your new one. It would make a lot more sense to have an item that always changes someone to a specific alignment, rather than the opposite one. Or even more likely, counts as a dominate person on you.
Of course, as of 3.5 the Helm is now a cursed item. But having any given alignment can hardly be seen as being a curse. It`s only a curse if your class has an alignment requirement that causes you to lose class abilities while under its effect.
Really this is just a big pain in the butt for players who now have to roleplay a character with basically a new personality. Meanwhile it doesn`t necessarily make the character change sides though he will likely piss off all the other party members. As a GM I get rid of this one if I see it in a scenario.
Peet
A half-elf can take Racial Heritage (human), and then is no longer considered to be an elf.
A half-elf can take Racial Heritage (human), and then is no longer considered to be an elf.
so would that make you Half-Human? xD
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A half-elf can take Racial Heritage (human), and then is no longer considered to be an elf.
This one actually makes sense. since 3.0 there has been the tradition of some half elves not literally being half elves. Say your mother is 1/16 elven and your father is 1/8 elven. Both are mechanically human. They have have kids. One of those kids gets enough recessive elven traits that they get the longer life span, low light vision, pointy ears etc and are mechanically, a half elf. His actual genetics are still, roughly 70% human and just barely over what it takes to make a "half elf". All his full siblings are human.
For such a "half elf" taking Racial Heritage (human) so that they are no longer considered an elf makes sense. Basically, they are the child of two humans and genetically predominantly human. This is a good way of using game mechanics to show this little quirk.
oh gawd, don't bring in hereditary genetics to the game.
In the case of the half-races, I just have the race of the children follow the gender of the parent. Human and half-elf get together, human dad has human sons, half-elf mother has half-elf daughters.
Takes the problem and quashes it flat. The fact that humans can have so many bloodlines working through their system and still be 'human' and occasionally give birth to tieflings is one of the weird things about humans.
==Aelryinth
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Humans are the second horniest creatures in the game, what with all their bloodlines and heritages strewn about.
The first horniest, however, are dragons. The half-dragon template can be applied to any creature in the game. Any. Plants. Elementals. Aberrations. Dragons have no standards, it seems.
Using Shield Master feat to ignore the penalties for negative levels, power attack, combat expertise, fighting defensively, defending weapon quality, etc.
Wait how does this work?
Humans are the second horniest creatures in the game, what with all their bloodlines and heritages strewn about.
The first horniest, however, are dragons. The half-dragon template can be applied to any creature in the game. Any. Plants. Elementals. Aberrations. Dragons have no standards, it seems.
This reminds me of a 3.5E thought experiment: Half-dragon (red) Tarrasque.
Definite, blatant disregard for RAI. Perfectly legal. And I'm not seeing anything in Pathfinder core rules that says it's illegal either.
Wait how does this work?Using Shield Master feat to ignore the penalties for negative levels, power attack, combat expertise, fighting defensively, defending weapon quality, etc.
The feat says to ignore 'ALL penalties'.
Not just the penalties for TWF, which is what people naturally restrict themselves to.
==Aelryinth
A half-elf can take Racial Heritage (human), and then is no longer considered to be an elf.so would that make you Half-Human? xD
Well the alternative reading is that you take the feat and you retain your heritage. So your Half-Elf could take it and be part half-orc. Making you Half-Elk. Because your human, orc, and elf, but not until you take this feat that somehow can be taken post character creation. So at age 51 you suddenly become part Orc, which really you've always been. You could also choose just about any race, so your could be Human/Orc/Kitsune. This also applies to assimar with scion of humanity, so you could be part angel, part human, part goblin. And that's without getting into templates.