Familiar Archetypes: are they worth it?

[Thank Dog]

I'm playing a conjurer wizard and once I hit 7th-level with him I'd like to use Improved Familiar to get a Lyrakien (Azata) as a familiar. I really like the idea of her helping me craft items and considered giving her the Valet archetype but I don't quite understand how it works or if I'd be losing too much and gaining too little.

Making it up through Hero Lab it would seem that whatever Craft skills I possess, the Azata gets automagically as well, qualifying it for the Valet benefits. This would seem to make it the perfect item crafting aide. My worry is that I don't understand item crafting in Pathfinder very well so I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing or haven't thought of that would make this a poor choice.

This question also pertains to other familiar archetypes although it would seem one gives up too much from those to make them worthwhile.

[Maezer]

Wow. I almost feel guilty valet looks so good to me.

Cooperative Crafting nearly doubles the amount you can craft per day. It of course varies wildly from campaign to campaign and GM to GM, but if the campaign has any kind of timetable at all (ie isn't Kingmaker) you will reach the point where you can't craft your (or more likely the entire parties) gold into magic items before you are forced to move out.

No I am never one to downplay a bonus to perception, but losing alertness just doesn't measure up with the above. In fact if all I got was the Cooperative Crafting feat, I'd gladly give up every it replaces as the rest is just gravy.

Prestidigitation 1/hr probably just a fun ability but its fun and doesn't replace anything.

Teammate. Really good too. If you take lookout, this will probably get you several a few extra surprise round actions. Or Shake it Off is one of the best save boosting feats in the game. And your familiar is almost always in position. This is great too. (And more advantages if you talk other party members into it). oh and it replaces nothing again.

Deliver touch spell: holy cow, this is 5 star too. (Let me tell you healers should consider getting a familiar via eldrich heritage/arcane bond for this as it dramatically increases the ability to distribute buffs/heals/removal affects around the party.) It means your familiar can likely get in an out for 1 AoO, rather than suicide eating a full round attack. And again it cost nothing.

Deliver aid, probably wont get as much use as the above. But maybe it can help disarm a trap and get out of the danger zone before the explosion. It replace speak with animals of its kind. Really. How many times after level 7, are you getting a vital clue out of being able to speak with rats, ravens, etc. Its incredibly narrow and so negligible of a loss in most campaigns I don't think its worth these sentences.

Aide to All. Okay. Maybe this could in theory be a loss. I am not a fan of the scry, teleport, slaughter, leave attack style. That said getting the invisibile, tiny, familiar is valid way of setting this up and if this is something you expect to do regular then you might not consider the valet a trade up.

-other archetypes-

Infiltrator archetypes. I mentioned the one thing the Valet marginally gives up is the scry/teleport/slaughter. These both fill that nitche rather well. If you want to use your familiar as a (sacrifial) recon units well this is pretty much a solid improvement in that role over the the standard familiar.

Pilferer. Comic relief. Honestly this is the role familiars used to take in my campaigns if they were of note. Monkey/Raven harassment has lead to lots of laughs at my tables. And this just gives them a few more tools to play a few more jokes. When I look hard, I don't think they are worth it from a mechanical stand point, but I can certainly see it from a fun makes the game more interesting point of view.

Honestly I like them all. And will probably never run a non-archetyped familiar again in my life. The Valet archetype is probably over the top good (but I think crafting is over the top good) but they are all very usable.

[Khrysaor]

Valet is seriously hacks for anyone wanting to be a crafter and it's great for teamwork synergy.

Take the escape route teamwork feat and move freely without provoking AoOs.

Be a Dwarf wizard and take the favored class option to increase the amount of GP value you produce each day. +200gp (+50 while adventuring) per level. Effectively doubled because of cooperative crafting. The +2 allows you to use the rushed rules at a reduced penalty.

You can produce 1000gp per day in magic items. Rushed you can make 2000gp per day. Level 1 dwarf wizard bumps it to 1200 and 2400 respectively. Cooperative crafting bumps it to 2400 to 4800 GP per day at level 1. This obviously doesn't help right away as you have scribe scroll which doesn't cost much but will scale huge when you get other crafts.

Quarter these values while adventuring.

This is just one very synergistic option. As mentioned above, Eldritch heritage with a class that uses charisma and has access to spells or a spell like ability and you can craft what you like.

[Thank Dog]

Is there any way for a magus to get a familiar? 'cause some of those teamwork feats with a magus would be, ahem, broken :D

[Maezer]

Thank Dog wrote:

Is there any way for a magus to get a familiar? 'cause some of those teamwork feats with a magus would be, ahem, broken :D

They can take a familiar as a magic arcana or the Eldrich Heritage (Arcane) feat are the easy ways.

[AnnoyingOrange]

Khrysaor wrote:

Valet is seriously hacks for anyone wanting to be a crafter and it's great for teamwork synergy.

Take the escape route teamwork feat and move freely without provoking AoOs.

Be a Dwarf wizard and take the favored class option to increase the amount of GP value you produce each day. +200gp (+50 while adventuring) per level. Effectively doubled because of cooperative crafting. The +2 allows you to use the rushed rules at a reduced penalty.

You can produce 1000gp per day in magic items. Rushed you can make 2000gp per day. Level 1 dwarf wizard bumps it to 1200 and 2400 respectively. Cooperative crafting bumps it to 2400 to 4800 GP per day at level 1. This obviously doesn't help right away as you have scribe scroll which doesn't cost much but will scale huge when you get other crafts.

Quarter these values while adventuring.

This is just one very synergistic option. As mentioned above, Eldritch heritage with a class that uses charisma and has access to spells or a spell like ability and you can craft what you like.

If I recall correctly doubling a double comes out triple, not quadruple.

That would make it 2400 and 3600 respectively.

[Taku Ooka Nin]

If you are going beast bonded witch then the Infiltrator archetype is golden since it means your familiar can more easily escape from the scene if it is not an outsider with teleportation abilities.

For a crafter the Valet is beyond good. Making custom items like crazy is the name of the game, I suppose. The standard ring of invisibility is around 10,000-gp, but a constant ring of invisibility (That makes you visible for rounds that you attack since it isn't improved invisibility) costs 12,000-gp. A good use for a feat, eh?

Pilfer can be useful, but since familiars don't get trapfinding you are in a pickle. While they can be useful against non-magical traps, they cannot do anything about magical traps. Then again, summoning a monster, casting anti-magic field, and then telling the monster to go into the area is simple enough.

So,
Infiltrator--"Hey guys! My familiar is great at being sneaky! If I get killed then don't worry, I'm pretty sure I'll be back in another body!"
Valet--"Sup dudes! So, you're rough and tough adventurers, eh? Well, what doe adventurer's need? Gear! I'll make it for 6/10ths the cost!"
Pilfer--"So, we don't have a trapfinder. Great. GO RAVEN GO! *caw!*"

[Alexander Augunas]

There are a couple of really nasty teamwork feats that a Magus could gain easy access to via the Valet familiar. Especially if said Magus invests into an Improved Familiar with decent survivability.

[Experiment 626]

Alexander Augunas wrote:

There are a couple of really nasty teamwork feats that a Magus could gain easy access to via the Valet familiar. Especially if said Magus invests into an Improved Familiar with decent survivability.

Such as?

I've got a cavalier//wizard in a gestalt game and am looking for ideas that I might not have already considered.

[Mathwei ap Niall]

Khrysaor wrote:

Valet is seriously hacks for anyone wanting to be a crafter and it's great for teamwork synergy.

Take the escape route teamwork feat and move freely without provoking AoOs.

Be a Dwarf wizard and take the favored class option to increase the amount of GP value you produce each day. +200gp (+50 while adventuring) per level. Effectively doubled because of cooperative crafting. The +2 allows you to use the rushed rules at a reduced penalty.

You can produce 1000gp per day in magic items. Rushed you can make 2000gp per day. Level 1 dwarf wizard bumps it to 1200 and 2400 respectively. Cooperative crafting bumps it to 2400 to 4800 GP per day at level 1. This obviously doesn't help right away as you have scribe scroll which doesn't cost much but will scale huge when you get other crafts.

Quarter these values while adventuring.

This is just one very synergistic option. As mentioned above, Eldritch heritage with a class that uses charisma and has access to spells or a spell like ability and you can craft what you like.

Yeah but you are forgetting the biggest boost to item creation in the game, Improved familiar: Homonculus.

Take that with the valet archetype and you have a totally loyal minion with all your feats who you can custom design to be a crafting machine.
Spend a few extra grand when you make it to give it extra feats and skill points (I tend to give them evolved to get the +8 to spellcraft and craft Construct) and grab a decent sized Bag of holding.

Drop it and a giant pile of crafting supplies into the bag and tell it to get to work. By 7th level it'll be rocking about a +20 spellcraft score (+7 from masters ranks +8 from evolved +2 from masterwork tools, +3 from skill focus: Spellcraft)) as soon as it's made and within a week It will have made 3 more basic homonculi to assist it for an additional +6 on top of that.
Taking 10 will net it a 36 on any attempt to make an item letting it craft anything you want without needing to actually cast any spells or providing most other prerequisites and as constructs they can exceed the 8 hour work day and just craft all day and night.

The actual wizard should never need to get involved except to funnel in more goods and instructions or to receive what they have created.

[Jorin]

Uhmm... Stupid question. Where are the familiar templates? I don't remember ever seeing those?

[Ermehtar]

They're in the Animal Archive companion, Jorin.