If a two-handed fighter uses a Whirlwind Attack (with a two-handed weapon of course), does Backswing apply on targets after the first? RAW I think so, as Whirlwind Attack specifically is activated when using a full-attack action, and Backswing applies on full-attacks. And it would be a nice damage boost.
Here are the text of the two abilities for reference:
Whirlwind Attack
Spoiler:
You can strike out at every foe within reach.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.
Backswing
Spoiler:
Backswing (Ex)
At 7th level, when a two-handed fighter makes a full-attack with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls for all attacks after the first.
This is yet another reason I've felt the interpretation of Whirlwind Attack is incorrect. It really breaks the "feel" of the feat when you treat it as several individual swings, 1 vs each enemy. I think it was written with the intent that it's a single, arcing swing and the "one melee attack at highest BAB against each opponent" actually means it's one attack but each target gets their own attack roll. This would mean that Backswing doesn't apply because there's only one attack being made. But then, I feel it could have been made even better if it just got rid of the attack roll altogether and, instead, made it an AoE melee attack with a reflex save.
I don't know Kazaan - while the 3.0 picture of whirlwind attack is one long swipe with heads flying, the name and description itself leads me to an image of a truly whirling swordswoman, using momentum to build speed and strike in a flash forward/back/side/other-side/ahead-left.
I think the mechanic nicely leaves the fluff open to interpretation.
You should also be able to use Backswing along side great cleave to devastating effect.
Unfortunately I don't think they stack: Great Cleave uses a standard action to do a "Great Cleave" action, while backswing specifically says full attack.
As a GM I'd probably house rule it to work though.
You should also be able to use Backswing along side great cleave to devastating effect.
Unfortunately I don't think they stack: Great Cleave uses a standard action to do a "Great Cleave" action, while backswing specifically says full attack.
As a GM I'd probably house rule it to work though.
I'd recommend against it; Great Cleave already lets the player move and attack 3+ times, at their full attack bonus. Whirlwind attack requires a full-round attack; let Backswing be its mechanical benefit.
Majuba wrote:
I don't know Kazaan - while the 3.0 picture of whirlwind attack is one long swipe with heads flying, the name and description itself leads me to an image of a truly whirling swordswoman, using momentum to build speed and strike in a flash forward/back/side/other-side/ahead-left.
I think the mechanic nicely leaves the fluff open to interpretation.
Agreed; the warrior in question "appears" like a whirlwind, throwing blow after blow out all around them. How would you WWA with a longspear otherwise? In some ways, WWA with a spear is even cooler - stab! stab! stab!
You should also be able to use Backswing along side great cleave to devastating effect.
Unfortunately I don't think they stack: Great Cleave uses a standard action to do a "Great Cleave" action, while backswing specifically says full attack.
As a GM I'd probably house rule it to work though.
Oh derp. I meant the single attack version of backswing called overhand chop. My brain decided it didn't want to cooperate. But yeah, they should work together. The wording on the ability is such that one would not originally believe that to be the case, but it evidently is. If it isn't, there's gonna be a lot of cleave spammers, a few of which are actually VOs, whose builds are invalid.
Hrrm... I don't think Overhand Chop works either: it specifically applies to single attacks made with the attack action or charge, while cleave and great cleave are their own actions. It also doesn't work on AOO's because they aren't technically an attack action (if I recall correctly).
Spoiler:
Overhand Chop (Ex)
At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls.
It says ANY BONUS or EXTRA ATTACKS, not bonus attacks. It could have been shortened by just saying "you also forfeit any extra attacks" if that is all it is meant to apply to.
Though just for the sake of bookkeeping backtracking all those other things out could be a pain - which leaves me wondering if the intent doesn't match the RAW.
Have you never read sentences in English before? "Bonus or extra attacks" means "bonus attacks or extra attacks". If they meant it to mean you sacrifice all other additions, they would have said "bonusES AND extra attacks." There's semantical differences between bonus attacks and extra attacks in PRG - you get extra attacks with a high BAB and you get bonus attacks with haste.
While interpreting it your way is a grammatically correct sentence, it is the single most illogical way to parse it.
"Bonus or extra attacks" means "bonus attacks or extra attacks". If they meant it to mean you sacrifice all other additions, they would have said "bonusES AND extra attacks." There's semantical differences between bonus attacks and extra attacks in PRG - you get extra attacks with a high BAB and you get bonus attacks with haste.
While interpreting it your way is a grammatically correct sentence, it is the single most illogical way to parse it.
PRD on Haste wrote:
...hasted creature may make one extra attack with...
The same applies for TWF gives extra attacks, blessing of fervor gives extra attacks, speed weapons given extra attacks, etc.
You should also be able to use Backswing along side great cleave to devastating effect.
...
Oh derp. I meant the single attack version of backswing called overhand chop. My brain decided it didn't want to cooperate. But yeah, they should work together. The wording on the ability is such that one would not originally believe that to be the case, but it evidently is. If it isn't, there's gonna be a lot of cleave spammers, a few of which are actually VOs, whose builds are invalid.
They are indeed invalid - you can Vital Strike with Overhand Chop, but you can't Cleave with it.
