Goblin Squad Member
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Visual Range = The range at which you can see the avatar of another character.
Audio Range = The range at which you can hear the actions of another character.
Indentification Range = The range at which you can see things like player names, company tags, and reputation/standing indicators.
Targeting Range = The range at which you can select someone as a target.
So the points of discussion is how far away should each of these be? Which of these should you be able to upgrade? What factors should effect each of these? How should they relate to each other?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Preface: I think the best system I've seen for these was in the original Darkfall. Audio and visual range were he farthest out and both were about the same. Nothing effected either. They were the same for every character. Targeting range didn't exist, but there was an identification range that was considerably closer in than audio/visual range. The identification range was in fact much closer in than some of the longer range attacks but there were a few effects that increased it (a skill that only worked with a bow out, an archery trait, and an elven racial trait). So often you would want to bring elven archers into battle as they allowed you to identify incoming players much farther out. It was really cool, even as a human, I seriously appreciated that aspect of the game.
My Thoughts: In general I think audio/visual range should be set the farthest out they are comfortable standardizing for everyone targeting range should be at about 300 meters and, and the standard identification range should be at about 100 meters in. This symbolizes that you can see farther than you can shoot which is father out then when you can really tell who you're shooting at.
Darkness/Fog should negatively effect visual, targeting, and identification distance but not audio.
Stealth should entirely negate audio unless an ability with an audio component is activated or the target has a much higher perception and reduce visual effects as described in the blog. Targetting and identifacation range should remain the same if the target is visible.
Certain boots and mount types should reduce audio range.
Perception or a sub-skill under perception along with certain passive traits should raise identification range.
Certain standards and flags should increase the range at which different elements of your info can be identified depending on what kind you carry.
Targeting range should be as far away as you can see someone, though that doesn't necessarily mean you can attack them.
So basically targeting range and visual range should be the same imo, though this isn't something which I feel very strongly about.
Edit: I concur that darkness should also severely limit visual range. This would both help the servers at night, and give people that feeling of FEAR when traveling at night time. For anyone who's experienced the night-time fear in a video game, you know what I'm talking about.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would suggest that if these ranges are different for each of these, that stealth actually apply to all of them and not just vision/targetting. Someone who can get 50% closer before being seen should also be able to get 50% closer from than their identify range. You might see there is a guy moving from shadow to shadow sneaking up on you, but seeing the figure is much different from getting a good enough look to identify the face.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see any benefit to splitting the skills for this application; that would just mean twice the training for any stealther while someone detecting need only train one skill. That's if my assumption's correct that you would have 2 sets of numbers compared (Hide vs Spot & Move Silently vs Listen) and give the detector the greater range of the two, as they detect the person either through Listen or Spot.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you can hear the person but not see them, then you still shouldn't be able to target them. It would be useful for audio clues, and maybe give you an edge to move towards the sound to try to help you vision or lab a fireball, but to target someone, you would need to be able to see them.
Yea, I'm going to have to agree with Shane. I've never seen a game split stealth like that (other than DnD TT). Usually the listen/move silently aspect is just ignored, or factored into the overall stealth skill.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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If spot and hide apply only to detecting things in front of you, but move silently and listen apply to all methods of detecting someone in the rear arc, then all four skills are situationally useful.
That would require either that facing be a thing, or that there not be a situational awareness map that shows people trying to hide within spot distance.
If spot and hide apply only to detecting things in front of you, but move silently and listen apply to all methods of detecting someone in the rear arc, then all four skills are situationally useful.
That would require either that facing be a thing, or that there not be a situational awareness map that shows people trying to hide within spot distance.
It makes sense on paper, but from a technical/implementation perspective, that's an over-complication of an otherwise simple thing.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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It makes sense on paper, but from a technical/implementation perspective, that's an over-complication of an otherwise simple thing.If spot and hide apply only to detecting things in front of you, but move silently and listen apply to all methods of detecting someone in the rear arc, then all four skills are situationally useful.
That would require either that facing be a thing, or that there not be a situational awareness map that shows people trying to hide within spot distance.
The only complication I see is that it doesn't resist client-side cheating. Wha technical and implementation complexities do you see?
Honestly, I don't think it would be TOO complicated, I just think it's completely unnecessary to have an extra skill when you can just have stealth/perception function 360°.
As people turn around, it would have to keep switching back and forth, and on top of that you have the other person moving around as well, so it's just an unnecessary complication.
My main objection is that I can't really see any tangible benefit to it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Honestly, I don't think it would be TOO complicated, I just think it's completely unnecessary to have an extra skill when you can just have stealth/perception function 360°.
As people turn around, it would have to keep switching back and forth, and on top of that you have the other person moving around as well, so it's just an unnecessary complication.
My main objection is that I can't really see any tangible benefit to it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Display range: 300 meters or so. Adjusted due to physical inpediments, trees, fog, heavy rain etc.
Audio range: 200 meters or so. Adjust due to actions, just exaclty what is that guy doing? If you can't see him until he is 100 meters away, what ever was blocking sight, probably blocked sound also, depending on exactly what it was.
Identification range: 100 meters or so. Adjusted by targets outfit. Face covered, good luck lol.
Target range: Same as visual.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, I think all of these ranges should be 360 degrees instead of a cone. The sense of direction should come from camera perspective. Based on what I've seen and their vision for stealth that needs to be a close in 3rd person perspective. That way stealthers can negate their higher visibility range by approaching from behind.