Okay, I got one heck of a doozy.
I have a multi-armed character (anthropomorphic cerberus homebrew race) who trained both with magic and swordplay utilizing her extra hands. I originally built her as a fighter 2 / magus X, but I realized that the magus's spell list consists mostly of blasts, some crowd control, and self buffs. My character being a guardian of an ancient library, she's more likely to create magical traps and cast utility spells rather than drop stink bombs and throw fireballs. I slowly realized that most of the spells that would interest her are strictly divine spells.
My GM being an incredibly awesome guy, I'm now considering reworking her as a magus mystic theurge. I still want her to be a magus to fit the character concept of using her arms to attack and cast spells at the same time. However, I have never built a cleric before. I'm not even sure what kind of energy she would channel, but I'm certain she would probably have a lawful neutral or a true neutral (non-Pathfinder) patron deity. So maybe you can toss me some suggestions or advice?
Her statistics:
level 11
Lawful Neutral
Str 18+1+1, Dex 14+2, Con 14, Int 16+2, Wis 13, Cha 12-2
Are you dead set on mystic theurge? Magus multiclassing with a divine class and then mystic theurge is going to have serious progression issues.
What materials are you permitted? Are you allowed 3rd party material, or perhaps the playtest warpriest? It would be possible to then have the martial aspects you want while being a strictly divine caster if that is your preference.
I'm not dead set on the mystic theurge, but I do want the magus for spell combat. I was a fighter 2 / magus 9 and I'm a pretty strong character to begin with, so I don't mind a little progression loss.
3rd party material is allowed, but I prefer not to complicate things for my GM. He's a pretty cool guy for letting me have this character in the first place. He would probably be fine with the ACG playtest material.
From my experience, Mystic Theurge on anything other than wizard/cleric is unbearably slow-progressing; My Oracle/Sorc/MT was appreciably weaker than Straight Wizards or Clerics, and cast spells an entire spell level lower than Wiz/Clr/MT would. A Clr/Mgs/MT is still a number of levels behind in progression, and misses out on Arcana and Arcane Points; both of which are crucial in keeping the Magus up in power. In the mid teens, a pure Magus can wear Heavy armor, hit 4 times in a round while casting a touch spell (defensively without having to roll).
My favorite thing was that I could burn arcane points to pull back spent spell slots. It's like having a fistful of pearls of power. Use those Arcana- spontaneously Maximize, Quicken or Empower. Use an immediate action to bump your AC by your intelligence. It's really a powerful class.
Mystic Theurge doesn't work well with Magus. You need medium base attack, d8 hit points, arcane points, armor proficiency, magus arcana and all the other goodies you get with going up a magus level that an theurge just won't give you.
I would look at other ways to get the feel you want. Spell Blending arcana can give add a wizard spell or two to your magus list. Your GM seems pretty cool, so he might be open to letting you research a few protection/trap type spells.
I am the only actual spellcaster in the group. But yeah, you have a point. Mystic Theurge would mean less arcane pool points.
I never considered spell research.
Divine Strategist looks pretty cool and kind of fits. It makes sense that a three-headed creature can still act in a surprise around.
I advise against the cleric-multiclassing or mystic theurge.
If all you really want is some extra spells that grant you trap-like runes, wards and such:
Alarm - Wards an area for 2 hours/level.
Arcane Lock - Magically locks a portal or chest.
Create Pit - Creates an extradimensional pit.
Web - Fills 20-ft.-radius spread with sticky spiderwebs that can grapple foes and impair movement.
Explosive Runes - Deals 6d6 damage when read.
Sepia Snake Sigil - Creates text symbol that immobilizes reader.
Spiked Pit - As create pit, but filled with spikes.
all of these are on the wizard spell list and you can gain all of these through the magus arcana:
Spell Blending (Ex)
Benefit: When a magus selects this arcana, he must select one spell from the wizard spell list that is of a magus spell level he can cast. He adds this spell to his spellbook and list of magus spells known as a magus spell of its wizard spell level. He can instead select two spells to add in this way, but both must be at least one level lower than the highest-level magus spell he can cast.
Special: A magus can select this magus arcana more than once.
No need to multiclass into anything divine... what specific cleric spells did you have in mind that you absolutely want? because if you are out for bless and such, then you are better off exchanging your magus for a bard (arcane duelist), you'd get a good bunch of group buffs (good hope, for one) and get to channel your magic into your weapon with arcane strike and bladethirst. (Also: bard would fit the librarian knack for knowledge?)
Don't mix cleric+magus (or any spellcasting classes), you'll sorely regret it when enemies with spell resistances start to show up regularly. And since you are already level 11, that's bound to happen soon.
Glyph of Warding really appeals to me, but you convinced me. A magus mystic theurge wouldn't be worth it. I once read several posts that it could potentially be very good, but I'm not sure why.
For my character, those spells you listed could probably fit the bill, and anything I can't get with Spell Blending I could probably convince my GM to let me spell research it. He might like that idea. I tend to get many spellbooks as treasure since my character likes to collect and read them, even if she can't cast the spells.
Maybe I'll consider changing my fighter levels into magus levels so I can get a higher spell level and get more spells out of spell blending. I took fighter (lore warden) so I could get bonus feats for utilizing my character's multiple arms.
so, you and your advisers are correct- it is not optimal... but if you wanted to play a magus/MT for RP reasons, or just cause you want to try it, i think you could make it functional...
if you start with magus 6/cleric 1 you can take broad study so you can use cleric spells with spell combat/spellstrike and take either the trickery domain or the fate inquisition so that you meet the 2nd level divine spell requirement (through SLA) without needing more than 1 non-magus casting level. you could take 10 levels of MT from there... the BAB is going to be an issue but you'll have a lot more options for buffs to make up for it. like i said, not optimal but you'd have a lot of options for the out of combat stuff you want and could use spell combat to attack and get some buffs off in combat (and by, i don't know, maybe the 3rd round you should be doing decent with your combat- plus everyone else will often be benefiting from some of your buffs).
@nate:
the big problem is: magi live and die with spell strike / spell combat...
that means:
- having enough attack bonus to hit your enemy (you are not targeting touch AC here)
- having enough int to beat saving throws on a reliable basis
- having enough caster levels to bypass spell resistance
you'll notice that most mystic theurge builds try to compensate those by either picking spells that don't require these (especially attack rolls):
buffing, summoning, ...
or builds that specifically make up for the lack of caster levels with traits like magic knack (+2 CasterLvl), however you can only get magical knack OR magical lineage (which is a staple for magi: intensified shocking grasp)
so while this wont be too hard on "lower" levels (7-12), by level 14-15 this will become really tough!
magus6/cleric1(check if your DM allows this first, though)/mystic theurge5, means a BAB of 4+0+2=6 at level 11...
at this level a straight magus has a BAB of 8 and a fighter a BAB of 11
thanks to class features and spells a magus can actually bump his attack bonus to fighter-levels and higher quite easily
(+3 from arcane pool buff as a swift action and he gets magic weapon and haste from his class spell list, on top)
@nate: not taking weapon enchantments into account (which a magus can have too), what cleric-features/spells do you suggest to get those missing +5 BAB back? (1-3 level cleric spells only)
- bless only gives +1 morale or
// aid +1 morale (and some sorely needed hitpoint)
- prayer +1 luck or
// divine favor +2 luck (for being caster level 6 on the cleric side)
also the mystic theurges low hit dice (d6) would put you at serious risk on that front line
better be a straight bard in this case
also, what cleric spells would you suggest using with broad study spell combat/spellstrike? other then "inflict" spells, I don't see anything interesting at first glance?
Glyph of Warding really appeals to me
Rune of Warding
School abjuration; Level sorcerer/wizard 3***snip***
They function as a glyph of warding (blast glyph), though unlike a glyph of warding, these runes are always visible.
***snip***
enjoy :-D
like i said, its not optimal... it isn't quite dead weight either though.
round 1: use a swift action for extra +2 enhance on weapon (i know magus can do that too, but we're aiming for the fighter's +11...), cast divine favor, and move to set up a flank for next round [now up to +10, +6 base plus +2 extra enhance and +2 luck]
round 2: cast haste with spell combat, 5' step into flank, full attack [flank balances spell combat penalty; haste bonus puts you at +11, matching full BAB's normal bonus- plus you've buffed everyone else]
round 3: if party needs more buffs cast aid and full attack, if not cast shocking grasp and full attack with spellstrike.
its not the dpr that a straight class magus can kick out (obviously), but if its what he wants to play its not a worthless/unworkable build.
edit: spell combat will be more useful for cleric spells since it will let you get off self/party buffs and still be able to attack; spell strike could be fun with the inflict spells (as you mentioned), bestow curse, or poison- or (if you happen to have Close Range) things like the alignment based smites, searing light, and spit venom, but clearly won't be a game changer.
Glyph of Warding really appeals to meRune of Warding
School abjuration; Level sorcerer/wizard 3
***snip***
They function as a glyph of warding (blast glyph), though unlike a glyph of warding, these runes are always visible.
***snip***enjoy :-D
I saw that, but that limits it to just the blast glyph. Glyph of warding appealed to me because you can tie a spell to the trap, giving it much more interesting possibilities. It makes me scratch my head because it's basically just a weaker explosive rune that can ward an area. Maybe my GM can let me use spell glyphs with it, too.
like i said, its not optimal... it isn't quite dead weight either though.
round 1: use a swift action for extra +2 enhance on weapon (i know magus can do that too, but we're aiming for the fighter's +11...), cast divine favor, and move to set up a flank for next round [now up to +10, +6 base plus +2 extra enhance and +2 luck]
round 2: cast haste with spell combat, 5' step into flank, full attack [flank balances spell combat penalty; haste bonus puts you at +11, matching full BAB's normal bonus- plus you've buffed everyone else]
round 3: if party needs more buffs cast aid and full attack, if not cast shocking grasp and full attack with spellstrike.its not the dpr that a straight class magus can kick out (obviously), but if its what he wants to play its not a worthless/unworkable build.
Except you could have given haste to your group with a straight magus just fine... I don't see what cool buffs your cleric levels add for that group, that they don't already get... unless you swap divine favor for prayer, and to me flanking does not count because everyone, even the fighter would want this, to hit more reliably anyways.
suggested Monster AC for CR level 11 is 25... that is +-0 partylevel vs. monsterCR average AC (thus not supposed to be very hard)
spell combat will be more useful for cleric spells since it will let you get off self/party buffs and still be able to attack; spell strike could be fun with the inflict spells (as you mentioned), bestow curse, or poison- or (if you happen to have Close Range) things like the alignment based smites, searing light, and spit venom, but clearly won't be a game changer.
what party buffs? you didn't use any (haste is available to magus , too)... by the end of round 3, most fights should already be "under control".
your problem with inflict/bestow curse/poison/... will be your low caster level and wisdom, all those require saving throws.
- you have to hit AC ~25 with your +11 (and I don't see how your iterative hits are going to hurt anyone thus making full attacks pointless, you are better off trying to stay out of harm's way with your lower hitpoints)
- you have to get through saving throws where monsters have a +14 or +10 to their save (good luck, you'll need it)
- and you might have to pierce spell resistance on top of that!
@kyoni- i know its not a strong build (i keep saying its not a strong build), but the OP asked for it so i'm trying to generate a build that won't be a total anchor (instead of just telling him to change his mind)... its like when someone asks for a rogue build: plenty of people point out that you'd be better off with a vivisectionist (which is basically what you've done), which while true may not be what they want- so i'm the crazy guy trying to figure out how to build a rogue worth playing... or, in this case, a magus/MT worth playing.
edit: and i don't mean that in any way as an attack- i do my fair share of you-should-build-X-instead-ing around here too.
@kyoni- i know its not a strong build (i keep saying its not a strong build), but the OP asked for it so i'm trying to generate a build that won't be a total anchor (instead of just telling him to change his mind)... its like when someone asks for a rogue build: plenty of people point out that you'd be better off with a vivisectionist (which is basically what you've done), which while true may not be what they want- so i'm the crazy guy trying to figure out how to build a rogue worth playing... or, in this case, a magus/MT worth playing.
My character being a guardian of an ancient library, she's more likely to create magical traps and cast utility spells rather than drop stink bombs and throw fireballs. I slowly realized that most of the spells that would interest her are strictly divine spells.
My GM being an incredibly awesome guy, I'm now considering reworking her as a magus mystic theurge.
I'm fairly certain that giving the OP a list of traps/runes/and utility spells from the wizard list and how to access them, was an appropriate answer.
The idea of mystic theurge was a bad one and the OP finally agreed to drop that idea.
Telling someone how to do a mystic theurge that the OP will regret after a few gaming sessions is not doing him a favor.
But I don't believe in class names /class feature names anyways, if that concept/idea was better served by being an arcane duelist (bard) for various reasons, then I suggest it (and I did).
I do appreciate your input, nate lange. Getting a SLA via domain sounds like the best way to pull this off. The trickery domain's Copycat SLA sounds kind of cool to think of a four-armed character having an illusionary double to intimidate enemies. I might draft a character sheet around this and see what I think. Even if I don't go with MT for this character, at least I'll know for later. Magus/MT still sounds pretty fun even if it's not the most optimal thing ever. I also share your sentiment about the rogue thing. I always grew irritated when someone who never played a spellcaster asked for help making a simple blasting wizard and everyone responded by giving complicated builds involving multiclassing with a sorcerer and using highly obscure source material.
I'm shifting my decision away from MT, not because it's suboptimal, but because others indicated that I can accomplish the same character concept goals without the headache and sacrifices made to multiclass and take levels in a prestige class, despite the cool factor of taking divine levels (my character's master is believed to be a demigod that disappeared before she was born, leaving her enemies to believe her master is dead).