How would you make the Discworld characters in the PF rules?
This is just a thought experiment. I will probably never really use them for anything. (Though I have considered playing Moist Von Lipwig a time or two.)
Obviously you can’t duplicate anything from a novel exactly. But it seems like we should be able to get pretty close to the ‘spirit’ of the characters.
Rincewind for example:
I think of Rincewind as a wizard. But he doesn’t actually know hardly any magic.
So he should have intelligence of only 11 or 12.
He is a coward of the first order, so the feats of run, dodge, mobility, improved initiative, and/or alertness are appropriate.
He always seems to survive so medium dex, medium con, toughness, and any of the improved saving throw feats are also appropriate.
He is convinced that everyone is out to get him (they usually are), so probably the skeptic and suspicious traits.
Carrot Ironfounderson
Is pretty obviously a human paladin with the adopted (by dwarves) and maybe courageous traits.
What are your thoughts?
For all his paranoia, I'd expect Rincewind to have some Charisma, especially for UMD...
I don't remember. What unexpected magic items did he use?
Oh yeah I forgot about the armor controlling the golems thing.
I guess I thought of the luggage as somewhere between a cohort, construct, and uncooperative familiar.
I'm currently preparing an all-dwarf campaign where the dwarves are all "diskworld standard": pragmatic, "somewhat" religious, and with no functionnal difference between genders. It'll be an interesting experiment to say the list. Unfortunately, it's not in english, so I cant have my players sing the "gold" song.
I would be interested in seeing playing a Vimes-like character. Definitly a rogue-ish type (despite his status as a lawman).
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For all his paranoia, I'd expect Rincewind to have some Charisma, especially for UMD...I don't remember. What unexpected magic items did he use?
Well, he thought he was granting wishes in eric. That almost counts. If he could actually cast spells i'd imagine he'd use all his spell slots for expeditious retreat and haste with metamagic feats at higher levels. The luggage would make a good eidolon.
I'd probably use the street performer achetype bard for Moist.
Twoflower would have the Commoner class, and automatically succeed any saving throw for no effect. Also, like, +10 bonus to dodge. He should be both invincible and useless in combat.
I would be interested in seeing playing a Vimes-like character. Definitly a rogue-ish type (despite his status as a lawman).
Urban Ranger 3 / Investigator Rogue 2 / refluffed Golden Legionnaire or maybe Student of War
I would be interested in seeing playing a Vimes-like character. Definitly a rogue-ish type (despite his status as a lawman).Urban Ranger 3 / Investigator Rogue 2 / refluffed Golden Legionnaire or maybe Student of War
Also, high WIS, with CHA secondary (in spite of what he thinks about things, he definitely has the "force of personality" thing covered. I think I put him together as an Inquisitive (3.5 Eberron) once, for fun.
Probably should have weapon focus: club as well the Leadership feat.
Not sure how to model the Free-willed golem though. . .
I don't know anything about Golden Legionnaire or Student of War, but Urban ranger and investigator sure fit.
I think Vimes should also have improved unarmed strike, improved grapple, and dirty trick as options in his arsenal.
Not sure about the high charisma though. Few people seem to like him. But the other copers are dedicated to him, so maybe.
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I would make rincwind either a rouge with the minor and major magic talents or a sorcerer with archetypes that lower spells known, like cross blooded and battle sorcerer maybe learned sorcerer maybe tattooed
And he is a smart guy, I'd say somewhere 15-16 int
Magic items not directly described by the books: boots of springing and stepping, quick runners shirt
Maybe the swift blade PrC (a prestige class's based entirely upon the use of the haste spell until that spell becomes imbibed in your being)
Spells known, detect magic read magic expeditious retreat haste not sure as to the rest, not many more
Having a high charisma doesn't mean someone's necessarily all that likeable (that's what Diplomacy is for), just that they've got a forceful personality and they're memorable. Certainly everyone Vimes meets has strong opinions about him.
How would you make the Discworld characters in the PF rules?
I'd probably start by writing a whole host of new customized classes.
Granny Weatherwax - The most difficult character in the series to pigeonhole into a character class, as you can make an argument for and against any of the spell-casting classes, even a bard. The really important thing with Granny Weatherwax is, like the old argument about Gandalf, she doesn't really cast all that many overt spells throughout the series. She mostly just intimidates and tricks people into doing what she wants. So anything you can do to max out intimidate is important, and throw points into bluff and heal as well.
Nanny Ogg - You can safely just make her a witch, Greebo even acts like a Pathfinder witch familiar. Like Granny, she also rarely casts any overt spells, mostly seeming to rely on diplomacy, with bluff and intimidate being secondary, but still fairly high. Much of her more obvious "spellcasting" revolves around her cooking skills, so the Cauldron hex and brew potion should be taken, with points put into both Craft: Alchemy, Profession: Cook, and healing.
Agnes Nitt - Bard, hands down. You could make an argument for sorcerer with the maestro bloodline, but I'd still say bard, with Perform: Singing maxed.
Magrat Garlik - I'm going to go druid here (no animal companion), probably with levels in either aristocrat or bard following her marriage.
Having a high charisma doesn't mean someone's necessarily all that likeable (that's what Diplomacy is for), just that they've got a forceful personality and they're memorable. Certainly everyone Vimes meets has strong opinions about him.
Good point. Ok, I agree a 12-14 for charisma. I don't think it would be higher than that. Carrot has the really high charisma (and maybe Vetinari based on your definition).
How would you make the Discworld characters in the PF rules?I'd probably start by writing a whole host of new customized classes.
The whole point is how close can you come to the spirit of the character in the PF rules. I am well aware they don't fit exactly in the PF system.
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Weatherwax probably has the sutra casting feat, maybe the binder feat chains possibly a few ki feats possibly craft wondrous and loads of ranks in craft alchemy and probably in each of the knowledge skills and sense motive heal, max ranks in survival perception and intimidate and a few in appraise as for her class I'd give her 5+ levels of alchemist (herbalist possibly also vivisectionist, she almost certainly does not have the bombs) and adept (the NPC cleric/wizard fusion) or 10+levels of ranger (probably some archetype that gives up the animal companion, or she could have just never gotten around to calling it) or possibly Druid (domain not animal companion)
I'd stat up Vimes as a Brawler/Rogue, or possibly an Urban Barbarian/Rogue. He's definitely got rogue levels for sneak attack, stealth, and Knowledge (Local) completely maxed out. The rage thing seems to fit reasonably well, but he's unquestionably Lawful Good, so barbarian is a tough fit.
Carrot is a human paladin with charisma skills maxed out and some kind of nobility bloodline - maybe even an aasimar, if you want to consider just how powerful his Charisma and bloodline is. But probably just a human with a really high Charisma and whatever Cha-related feats and skills are available.
Angua is a fairly simple natural werewolf, maybe urban ranger levels.
Dorfl would just be a stone or clay golem, you'd have to build a pretty powerful race with the ARG to fit him.
The witches would probably fit reasonably well with the witch class, though most of them have some kind of terrain bond instead of a familiar (Nanny Ogg and Greebo are the exception). Granny, Tiffany, and the city witch from the last Tiffany Aching book all have powers based on their territory, not a patron or familiar, so you'd have to have an archetype to fix that.
Rincewind would have to have some sort of luck-based class, and isn't modeled well in Pathfinder.
Moist would be a rogue, or if the setting has one, a Charisma-based version of the old Rokugan Courtier class. He's not combat-capable, but can talk just about anyone into anything. Maybe a bard with Perform (Oratory)?
I think Granny Weatherwax has high wisdom, but I don't know about high intelligence. I wouldn't put it low either. Maybe 11-14. She has some skills she learned over a lifetime but no book learnin.
I don't think of Rincewind as all that intelligent even though he learns languages easily, he seems rather dim most of the time. Wasn't there a trait or feat that lets you learn 2 languages for each skill point?
Actually, I think you could model Rincewind's luck with hero points and the feats to give extra hero points.
I've also got to figure out the Nack MacFeegles.
I think Carrot, like Vimes, has the character of a Paladin, and even have personal codes that are pretty damned Paladin-like. But neither of them have the flashy abilities of one. Carrot's probably just a fighter with ridiculously high charisma.
Carrot should have Eldritch Heritage and IEH (maybe even IEH twice) of the Imperial bloodline.
Granny Weatherwax would have Wisdom out the wazoo.
She have a CHA at about the same value. Nobody can stand her glances. Not even Chuck Norris.
Not sure Granny has high charisma. In a lot of instances she seems fairly unsure of herself and just masking it with stuborness and bravado.
Devinitely has lots of ranks in bluff (headology) and intimidate though. Maybe even some feats and traits to improve them more.
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For all his paranoia, I'd expect Rincewind to have some Charisma, especially for UMD...I don't remember. What unexpected magic items did he use?A half-brick in a sock.
More seriously, artifact armor, kinda, in Interesting Times. I'm not sure if the Spell counts as a magic item, and then there's the Luggage...
Luggage = Packmate from Magic for Eberron
Packmate
The packmate resembles a chest with arms and legs. In fact, that is exactly what the packmate is: a set of drawers that can walk and move along with its creator. The packmate is designed around a wood and metal chest, with four legs beneath it, capable of carrying it along. Two pincer-like arms extend from the chest, allowing the packmate to withdraw items from one of the various compartments. Each of these compartments are magically locked.
As a custom class, Rincewind should be a rogue with the eidolon class feature instead of sneak attack progression. Otherwise a straight up summoner would be fine, so long as you don't actually use the spells. Having 10 charisma could help with that. (Although rincewind would actually have more, methinks.)
Nanny Ogg is the only witch who really feels witchy, as she's the only one with a proper familiar. (He's an old softie, really.)
Granny doesn't have the familiar, nor does she really use hexes.
You could get away with Angua being a druid using wild shape ifn' you aren't going down the actual werewolf pipeline.
Vimes is an urban ranger, methinks. He knows the city. He'll need Greater Dirty Trick as well.
Carrot is absolutely a paladin in terms of his social graces, but he gets no mechanical benefit.
Cassanunda is probably a bard of some kind.
Susan would be a Sorcerer. Invisibility is at a high priority. Undead bloodline is highly probable, although not a perfect fit.
The Patrician is the ultimate DM NPC.
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Captain Carrot Ironfoundersson has charisma of at least 22 (26 maybe?) and LG (evolved from "Lawful Stupid") alignment.
Samuel Vimes might not have especially high intelligence, but he has extraordinary wisdom. Nothing escapes his attention and he never gives up. Ever.
Havelock Vetinari must have exceptional intelligence, wisdom and charisma.
Corporal Nobbs cannot possibly have charisma higher than 3.
Havelock Vetinari must have exceptional intelligence, wisdom and charisma.
Corporal Nobbs cannot possibly have charisma higher than 3.
Vetinari would also have exceptional Dexterity. Remember his juggling act from Jingo and when he caught a bolt out of a crossbow while it was firing? Don't forget he was educated as an assassin.
I disagree with Nobbs. I think he would have to have decent charisma to get anybody to talk to him, considering his circumstances. Don't forget the lowest common denominator, and you can't get much more common than Nobby.
Just remember: Music should be free.
Yeah, discworld is like a "ultra-vancian" system; it takes months to learn a single spell and you lose it the moment you cast it... Maybe the E6 people would enjoy discworld.
I see Vimes as more stubborn than paladin code or especially charismatic. No one give the coppers orders but me. They don't take bribes and uphold the law. Not because the law is perfect but because he doesn't respect the nobility or others in power. Doesn't like those that grind down of the underdog. He has iron control of himself because he is afraid he could lose control and become even worse than those he opposes.
Iron will yes. Maybe even improved iron will.
I also don't seem him as especially charismatic. He tries a lot but actually isn't very good at convincing anyone of anything or intimidating people. Most of the diplomacy and intimidation is actually from the patrician after Vimes has found the guilty parties. He isn't very sure of himself. So he gets stubborn and sticks to the 'law' because that is outside himself.
Carrot? Mondo charisma. Everyone likes him. He is exceptionally sure of himself. His gentle persuasion and intimidation both almost always work. Even stepping into the middle of a mass dwarf/troll brawl.
If you're comparing Vimes' charisma to Carrot's, you're not doing it fairly. ANYONE is going to have their charisma pale in comparison to a six foot four dwarf with a panache for languages, the law, knowing damn near everybody, interesting hobbies (and 'specially the uninteresting ones)...
Vimes definitely has Wisdom in spades. Carrot has had a Wisdom dump-stat, not sure if that holds as true anymore.
If you could drop the magic from most of the characters, Carrot holds truest to Paladin without any of the spells.
Vimes has favoured enemy Human, Dwarf (after Thud), and sense motive as a class skill. His favoured terrain is urban (cardboard soled boots to feel the cobblestones; He knows where he with his eyes closed.) Dirty trick feats (he lights a match with his eyes closed and then strikes the highwaymen when they're blinded in 5th Elephant.)
You'd need custom races to get the Discworld trolls.
Discworld Troll
Abilities: +2 Str, -2 Int, +2 Cha. Discworld trolls are strong and imposing, but slow witted at room temperature.
Silicon Brain: Discworld trolls do not need to make fortitude saves in cold environments. In temperatures below freezing, a discworld troll gets a +4 bonus on all intelligence based skill checks and can make knowledge checks untrained. In hot temperatures above 100*F, a Discowrld troll failing his fortitude save takes 2 points of Intelligence damage that can't be healed until in a protected environment.
Diamond Teeth: Discworld trolls begin play with 3d10g worth of diamond teeth. Each tooth is worth 1g. A troll can remove any number of them himself by hitting himself with his slam attack. This attack deals double damage. Otherwise, they can only be removed as a part of a coup de grace that does not kill the troll.
Slam attack: If a discworld troll has at least one hand free, he can make a slam attack. This attack deals 1d10 plus one and a half times the trolls strength modifier. If the troll is holding any manufactured weapons, this attack only applies its strength modifier and is made with a -5 penalty on the attack roll.
Large Size: They're big! (Was gonna make it hit die dependant, but why bother.)
Slow Speed: 20' move speed, no encumbrance as per dwarves.
Oversized Weapons: Discworld Trolls can wield weapons as though they were one size category larger. They take no penalty wielding weapons sized appropriately. They can also carry large sized siege weapons as ranged weapons at a -4 penalty on attack rolls. Trolls are always proficient with clubs, greatclubs, and grappled humanoids at least one size category smaller than they are. (Treat as club if small or greatclub if medium.)
Mineral Composition: Discworld Trolls are composed of minerals found in the location near their birthplace. Discworld trolls are immune to poison not specially aimed at troll, and have DR 10/- against nonlethal damage.
With some feats for other mineral types
Alternate racial features:
Urban Troll: Trolls born in urban environments develop differently relative to those born in more traditional environments. They are composed of common building elements, such as brick, concrete, cobblestone. These trolls are medium sized, have a 30' move speed not subject to encumbrance. They gain a bite attack that deals 1d6 damage and ignores hardness. This ability replaces large size, slow speed, and slam attack.