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Does activating an item via Spell Trigger Activation count as casting a spell? For reference, here are the rules for counterspelling:
Counterspells
It is possible to cast any spell as a counterspell. By doing so, you are using the spell's energy to disrupt the casting of the same spell by another character. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.
How Counterspells Work
To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing to ready an action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. You may still move at your normal speed, since ready is a standard action.
If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent's spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can't do either of these things.
To complete the action, you must then cast an appropriate spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (or have a slot of the appropriate level available), you cast it, creating a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.
Counterspelling Metamagic Spells
Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered.
Specific Exceptions
Some spells can counter other specific spells, often those with diametrically opposed effects.
Dispel Magic as a Counterspell
You can usually use dispel magic to counterspell another spell being cast without needing to identify the spell being cast. Dispel magic doesn't always work as a counterspell (see the spell description).
The qualifier is that the opponent must attempt to cast a spell. When activating a Staff or a Wand, you use Spell Trigger Activation, but a spell is cast nonetheless. Does this satisfy the requirement for the opponent having "tried to cast a spell" and allow for a counterspell attempt?
Here are the rules for Spell Trigger:
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
And because it references Spell Completion, here are the rules for that:
Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that's left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can't already cast the spell, there's a chance he'll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action (or the spell's casting time, whichever is longer) and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.
Both of these passages make multiple references to casting a spell, and none of them specifically state that activating a Spell Trigger does NOT qualify as casting a spell. In fact, in order to use the item you must be of a class capable of casting the spell in question. This seems to suggest that the caster must have knowledge of the spell in question in order to properly cast it using a Spell Trigger Activation method.
So does activating an item with Spell Trigger Activation count as casting a spell?
If yes, why? If no why?
Seems that way. Wands and staves both refer to the activation as "casting a spell".
And yet, the text for wands and staves describes their use as "casting a spell", not "similar to casting a spell". Seems like support to me.
That's fair.
It underscores how poorly spellcasting is defined in the game when the designers use the phrase "cast a spell" to mean something else entirely. It isn't limited to items either; spell-like abilities are often referred to in terms of "cast a spell as a spell-like ability", which makes me wince every time I see it. A spell-like ability can't be countered, has no components, isn't affected by armor, can't be metamagicked, can't be used to recharge a staff, et cetera. But never you mind, it's casting a spell. : (
I would say that you can't counterspell a spell trigger item. Spell trigger items use a single command word and the user doesn't actually cast the spell therefore I don't think you would be able to identify the spell being cast since you can't actually see anyone casting a spell. All that is happening is they point a wand at you and utter a single command word.
That being said, you can ready an action to use Dispel Magic on the caster's wand in response to him activating it to suppress it for 1d4 rounds (If you pass the dispel check). This would have had to be the spell you used anyway as you would rarely know what spell is in the enemy caster's wand beforehand. This effectively accomplishes the same thing that you are trying to do.
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Might I suggest people FAQing the original post in the hopes that we get some clarification on this subject, as there are reasonable arguments to be made either way? Normally counterspelling just isn't useful enough for me to care, but with a new class in the works that can do it effectively I foresee this coming up much more frequently.
Sure.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Activate-Magic-Item
This indicates only a scroll is equivalent to Casting A Spell. I don't think you can counterspell spells from Wands or Staves, as that's not really casting going by the specific rules on magic item activation and spell-triggers. The "to cast a spell from a wand/staff" language is, imho, just a short-hand under the item descriptions. The idea it is equivalent to actually casting a spell is not really supported anywhere else.
Remember, the rules for spell trigger just say it is "similar" to spell completion. "Similar" doesn't mean anything in terms of game mechanics, because "similar" in english just means "some stuff is the same." It doesn't indicate what is the same, so the mechanic bits that are identical have to be specified.
This seems to be the only thing that comes close to a clear answer for or against counterspelling these kinds of items. It seems clear that using Spell Completion is the equivalent of casting a spell, and it seems clear that Spell Trigger is different than Spell Completion which would suggest it is NOT the same. That said, it is VERY poorly worded and not at all concrete.
I up-voted for FAQ as well. I would like to see an official response.
So a friend of mine brings up an interesting point regarding this issue. If the wielder of the Staff/Wand is not casting the spell, who is directing the attack? The inanimate object he is carrying? How does it see to direct the attack? It doesn't have eyes, or sentience. How can it target anything?
Similarly, when a person makes an attack with a weapon, does the weapon make the attack roll? Is the weapon considered to have attacked, not the wielder? Do effects that trigger when one type of creature makes an attack against another type of creature not trigger because the weapon made the attack?
At least, that is the argument that he is making. I kinda see his point even if I think he is being pedantic.
So a friend of mine brings up an interesting point regarding this issue. If the wielder of the Staff/Wand is not casting the spell, who is directing the attack?No reason why the person directing and the source need be the same thing. That's kind of the point of magical items.
The question is if there is support for this in the RAW.
The question is if there is support for this in the RAW.So a friend of mine brings up an interesting point regarding this issue. If the wielder of the Staff/Wand is not casting the spell, who is directing the attack?No reason why the person directing and the source need be the same thing. That's kind of the point of magical items.
The character is using the wand and is treated as the caster for all purposes--she chooses the target or targets, decides what illusion to create for a silent image, and so on. The wand can't make those decisions--it's a wand.
I'm interested in this question for a different reason. There are several Feats and Prestige Classes that require casting of spells as a requirement. I am wondering if the ability to cast a spell of the appropriate level via a wand qualifies you for these. This would make a new way to access these Classes and feats.
That's rather like saying the +5 longsword is the one attacking, the rogue just happens to be swinging it. Is this line of discussion merely philosophical or will there gonzo rules mangling in a post or two?
Sorry, not convinced about that argument. It's a wand. The wielder is the one performing the action.
Note that I'm already convinced that you can't counterspell a wand. I'm just not convinced by the argument that the wand is somehow "casting the spell".