So, I'm playing a Wizard in a RotRL game and plan on making some custom magic items (assuming DM approval of course). I thought I'd see what people thought about them and how they should be priced.
Quote: Cantrip Pearl:
Aura: Faint and of the same school as the contained spell, CL: 3rd, Slot: none
This small pearl looks similar to a Pearl of Power. Each Cantrip Pearl contains one 0th level spell within it, chosen upon creation. It is usable by any caster who has this 0th level spell on their class spell list. After being carried by such a caster for 24 hours, it attunes to them and provides the following benefit: Prepared casters are always considered to have this 0th level spell prepared without needing to spend a spell slot. Spontaneous Casters may add this 0th level spell to their spell's known.
If the Pearl is removed from the wearer for 24 hours, the attunement is lost.
Requirements: Craft Wondrous Item, 0th level spell to be contained within
Basically just a little toy to provide some extra minor magic. I figure it is significantly less powerful than a Pearl of Power (1st) / Page of Spell Knowledge (1st). It is similar in effect, so I figure the max Price/Cost would be 500gp/250gp based on the pricing guidelines (0th level spell items cost half as much as first). Though even half that at 250gp/125gp isn't unreasonable, imho.
In comparison a wand of a 0th level spell is 375gp/187.5gp. That's only 50 casts, but there's no chance of spell failure and it doesn't provoke. Given the weakness of cantrips, a price between 250gp and 500gp seems reasonable for an extra prepared one to me.
Quote: Book of Holding / The Infinite Index:
Aura: Moderate Conjuration, CL: 9th, Slot: none
This plain book appears to contain an index of other books. Upon speaking a command word and a title, the Index is replaced by the requested book. Another book or the index may be requested at any time. Any notes, bookmarks, or annotations made to requested books remain when the book is requested again. Only books that are part of the Index appear when requested.
A book may be added to the Index by placing the book upon the Index and speaking a command word. A book may be removed from the Index by requesting it and then speaking another command word. There are multiple versions of the Index, capable of holding different numbers of books within them determined by weight (a typical book weights between 1 and 3 pounds). The Index itself always weighs 3lbs and can only be used to hold books.
Attempting to have the Index hold an item that is not a book (except for bookmarks/sheet of paper/etc held within a book) always fails. This includes hiding an item within a hollowed out book or similar trickery.
Using any of the command words is a Full-Round Action.
Type I........250lbs....~125 books....Price: 250gp?
Type II.......500lbs....~250 books....Price: 500gp?
Type III.....1000lbs....~500 books....Price: 750gp?
Type IV......1500lbs....~750 books....Price: 1000gp?
Type V.......3000lbs....~1500 books....Price: 1250gp?
Type VI......6000lbs....~3000 books....Price: 1500gp?
Type VII....12000lbs....~6000 books....Price: 1750gp?
Requires: Craft Wondrous Item, Secret Chest
This is kind of like a highly specialized bag of holding. My initial thought is that it is so highly specialized that the cost should be something like 1/10 of the cost of a bag of holding, because its use is very, very limited. The above market prices are based on that.
On the one hand that might seem like that's a lot of weight for very little. On the other hand, it really does just hold books and only books, so the uses are very limited as far as the game goes or even as far as the game world is concerned. Balanced against that, it seems to me that a price reduction of only 50% compared to a bag of holding is too small (e.g. 5k gold to carry just 750 books is very expensive).
Granted there are other ways one could go about this, such as a magical item that could story a copy of a book and then turn into that copy. Maybe something like that would seem like it should be cheaper. It's would be less comparable to existing items (something like Secret Page out the wazoo), and would also get you books for free. I thought the above had fewer issues.
Quote: Animated Clothing:
Aura: Moderate Transmutation, CL: Same CL as per an Animated Object of the same size, Slot: Body
Animated Clothing appears to be just like regular outfit. In fact, it is a simple construct, treat it as animated object of the same size as the creature it is fitted for. It can dress or undress the owner in itself by taking a standard action (the owner spends no action). While worn, it helps its master carry items. Its Carrying Capacity values augment those of its master (add its light load to its master's to determine the master's light load when wearing Animated Clothing, etc).
Animated Clothing may be magical, in which case it confers all of its properties onto its master while worn. Any magical items Animated Clothing might be wearing take up the same slots on its master while it is worn. Animated Clothing cannot make attacks or aid in attacks while it is worn. In these and all other ways except where stated above, treat Animated Clothing just like a non-animated version of the same item while worn, albeit with the enhanced defenses and hit dice of a construct if someone attempts to sunder it.
Requirements: Craft Construct, Price/Cost: The same as an Animated Object of the size (Often Construction Points are left unspent to reduce the cost), plus the price/cost of the clothing.
Special: Animated Clothing can increase its strength for purposes of Carrying Capacity using Construction Points. 1 CP: +8 Strength, 2 CP: +12 strength, 3 CP: +16 strength. Again, this only applies to Carrying Capacity.
Decidedly NOT construct armor. Basically it increases carrying capacity and is a bit easier to put on. And it might come in handy if you get captured and stripped or something. It would be amusing to give it an intelligence of 1 and have it get jealous if you wear something else.
Note that this is rather expensive. Animated Objects have two different pricing guidelines either 1k per HD + 1k per CP, or the more standard CR squared * 500. For a standard 3 HD, 2CP medium construct, that's 5k or 4500. With no CP, that would still be 3k. I suppose one could make it weaker if you could give it the stats of a animated object that's smaller (without changing the actual size), but that gets more complicated.
Anyhow, any thoughts?
Now, I've got a question. Would you allow Spellbooks to be held by the index?
Otherwise, these are pretty cool items, that I quite enjoy. No idea on balance or pricing adjustments, though.
Edgar Lamoureux wrote: Now, I've got a question. Would you allow Spellbooks to be held by the index?
Otherwise, these are pretty cool items, that I quite enjoy. No idea on balance or pricing adjustments, though.
Since it doesn't copy the book and just stores it, I don't see why not. Any caster would quickly notice that the Index radiates magic. It would let you store multiple spellbooks more easily. On the other hand, unlike the Blessed Book it doesn't save you any money when you scribe spells. Not really much different than putting a spellbook in a Handy Haversack or the like.
Thanks for the compliment on them. I really just intend them more for story purposes and minor bits of utility.
Well, the Index will already radiate magic, but it's quite unlikely that a spellbook would ever be found in its inventory.
That being said, I really like the item, and might use it in some things I run. It's a really fun, flavorful item that definitely has some utility, and I could see, on a character or two I've made in the past, picking up one or more.
Same with the Animated clothing. At the point you'd be able to afford the clothing, you'd also be able to afford other versions of carrying capacity stretching, and this one is much more flavorful than a simple bag of holding, at least, in my opinion.
I wish I could comment on pricing, or balance, or any of that, but it's almost 6AM and I'm running on little sleep regardless. If nothing else, these are really cool items that I'm definitely going to steal.
PS: The Cantrip Pearls look fine to me, too. It's not particularly powerful, but there are definitely times when I've wanted another cantrip or two.
In my opinion, you need to specify that the Book of Holding won't hold scrolls or books with scrolls in or it needs to be more expensive or it needs to take a full round minimum to retrieve them. Apart from that I like it.
The cantrip pearl is excellent for those mages who lack cantrips eg spellslingers. Which means it would have to be more expensive or specify that such casters cannot use it.
The animated clothing is cool but opens up the idea of doing the same thing with armour. It might be better to be a non-craftable item which is found while adventuring.
Gilarius wrote: In my opinion, you need to specify that the Book of Holding won't hold scrolls or books with scrolls in or it needs to be more expensive or it needs to take a full round minimum to retrieve them. Apart from that I like it.
The cantrip pearl is excellent for those mages who lack cantrips eg spellslingers. Which means it would have to be more expensive or specify that such casters cannot use it.
The animated clothing is cool but opens up the idea of doing the same thing with armour. It might be better to be a non-craftable item which is found while adventuring.
1. I already did specify the full-round action bit. It's the last line before the table.
2. Those poor bastards without cantrips are pretty pathetic I suppose. But it isn't like them losing cantrips is a big deal (except it makes them a bit more boring). Still, I'll change it.
3. I guess I'm not seeing the problem with armor. Is it just the putting it on bit? There's a 1st level spell that makes it just about as quick. Also, there are a number of ways to sleep in armor without a problem. Though in the games I've played this sort of thing isn't a problem. Or were you talking about something else.
I did (3) mostly as flavor, but it is certainly adjustable.
Edit: I forgot there's a time limit on edits on this forum. Curses. Well, consider the Cantrip Pearl edited in my head.
May I add your items into my campaign? I like them and I like your pricing guidelines.
1. Consider inflating the book price (1/5 - 1/2) while reducing the max books and allowing it full spellbook and scoll usage.
2. Perfect.
3. There is a slippery slope once you trigger the iron man suit idea in the players imagination. Counter proposal: Use the folding plate as a guide for a outfit that will equip and unequip itself. Reduce the action to a swift action, increase the clothes range to within 30/60 ft, and give the item a higher than normal chance to be an intelligent item with the mage hand / invisible servant as will spells. And have it enchanted with ant haul.
DM Livgin wrote: May I add your items into my campaign? I like them and I like your pricing guidelines.
1. Consider inflating the book price (1/5 - 1/2) while reducing the max books and allowing it full spellbook and scoll usage.
2. Perfect.
3. There is a slippery slope once you trigger the iron man suit idea in the players imagination. Counter proposal: Use the folding plate as a guide for a outfit that will equip and unequip itself. Reduce the action to a swift action, increase the clothes range to within 30/60 ft, and give the item a higher than normal chance to be an intelligent item with the mage hand / invisible servant as will spells. And have it enchanted with ant haul.
Use them in your campaign? But my character was going to craft them and then sell them to other campaigns! You're going to kill his bottom line! : )
1. Do you mean quick access to books and scrolls (faster than a full-round action) or allowing spellbooks and scroll to be placed in it? I had intended the latter, as I didn't see the harm in it (spell books are relatively few in number, and scrolls would probably be placed in a Haversack for quick access).
2. Danke
3. Hmm, never noticed the folding plate before. *Looks at it* Jeebus, that thing is ridiculously expensive. Over 11k and it uses a neck slot while not in use. The main effect would be not becoming fatigued the next day IF you were wearing armor -- and there are lots of cheaper ways of avoiding that. Sure, there's the once-in-a-blue-moon hiding of your armor (though glamour or the like is cheap enough). Weird and crazy, imho. I just don't see how a Swift Girding effect (1st level spell) is worth remotely that much.
I do realize the danger of the ironman thing. That's why I was clear that the clothing couldn't take any actions while worn. I kind of liked the fact it could move around...that was really more or less the whole point. Sort of like the Sorcerer's Apprentice or other animated mundane things in fiction.
The only reason I didn't give it an intelligence of 1 was because that would mean it could get feats, which is kind of a big deal with constructs.
I grant ant haul would be easier, but I thought it felt better to have the bonus based on the construct rather than the person wearing it.
Though one could modify this a bit more, I suppose....
Quote: Animated Clothing:
Aura: Moderate Transmutation, CL: Same CL as per an Animated Object of the same size, Slot: Body
Animated Clothing appears to be just like regular outfit. In fact, it is a simple construct, treat it as animated object of the same size as the creature it is fitted for. It can dress or undress the owner in itself by taking a standard action (the owner spends no action). While worn, it helps its master carry items. Its Carrying Capacity values augment those of its master (add its light load to its master's to determine the master's light load when wearing Animated Clothing, etc).
Animated Clothing may be magical, in which case it confers all of its properties onto its master while worn. Any magical items Animated Clothing might be wearing take up the same slots on its master while it is worn. Animated Clothing cannot make attacks or aid in attacks while it is worn. In these and all other ways except where stated above, treat Animated Clothing just like a non-animated version of the same item while worn, albeit with the enhanced defenses and hit dice of a construct if someone attempts to sunder it.
Unlike most constructs, Animated Clothing has a degree of intelligence (int 1). It is non-violent and has a domestic attitude by nature. Any skills or feats it possesses will always reflect this (e.g. Skill Focus(Profession(cook)), ranks in Craft(Tailor), etc). Animated Clothing tends to grow a bit possessive of its owner with regards to other clothing. Animated Clothing has been known to have fits of jealousy or depression when it is not worn.
Requirements: Craft Construct, Price/Cost: The same as an Animated Object of the size of the clothing or smaller, if smaller use the statistics for a smaller animated object except for the space taken up. Additionally, the clothing itself must be purchased.
Special: The following are special options for Construction Points only available to Animated Clothing...
Cargo Pants (1-3 CP): Animated Clothing can increase its strength for purposes of Carrying Capacity using Construction Points. 1 CP: +8 Strength, 2 CP: +12 strength, 3 CP: +16 strength. Again, this only applies to Carrying Capacity.
Self-Repair (1 CP): The Animated Clothing can repair itself at a rate of 1 HP per minute with a successful Craft check (of the appropriate type) DC 10, and it gains a +2 racial bonus on all craft checks of this type.
Though maybe now I should just write it up more like a monster.
"Rambo the Barbarian, why aren't you wearing pants?"
"Cause they are darning my socks"
"....oh kay..."
I see, the domestic craft skills and the personality flavor really gets across that you can not use this item for combat advantage or suggests the to try my have a comic failure. No meaningful input on the cost.
I should point that medium construct already has 2 CP and giving it Cloth flaw (which is pretty obvious) gives it another CP. So if you construct it - you already got 3 CP. So it's price for a construct would be 3k gp or 4k gp for 4CP with full strength bonus and self-repair. But it will require craft:tailor check. Or you can just optionally say that it is 3k price for medium and 1k gp for each improvement up to maximum price of 7k gp.
You can just omit part of "price like construct" and say it is 3k gp + cloths (1500 for construction + cloths) with basic at haul bonus and it costs 1000 (500)gp for each improvement. Optionally - each next improvement costs 1000(500)gp higher (eg +16 strength will be 1000+2000) and self repair next will be another 3k. Also you can give more construction possibilities to it. Like prestidigitation at will or mage hand 3 times a day or unseen servant. Also you can givi it a trait costing 2cp to alert you if it notices (with +10 perception) something while you sleep.
The only comment I have about the Index is that it's a bit worrisome. I worry about how it interacts with things like bags of holding, portable holes or handy haversacks.
If the Index can't be stored in such objects, then a Wizard that stores his spellbook inside such an Index is ripe for a sunder happy enemy to destroy his book.
Also, books can be very valuable, I've seen 'small libraries of 30 - 40 books' go for several thousand gold in modules before.
I won't comment on the Animated Armor as that thing is a prime candidate of a magical item that is more 'gut feeling' than rules when it comes to pricing.
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However, the Cantrip Pearls are essentially the same idea as the Apprentice's Cheating Gloves from Ultimate Equipment. They pricing formula for a magic item that gives you an at-will cantrip is .5 * 1 * 1,800 or 900 gp (450 to craft). However, since the Cantrip Pearl doesn't take up a slot (as opposed to the Apprentice's Cheating Gloves), it's cost is multiplied by 2 for a total of 1,800 gp.
While I know the idea is to model the Cantrip Pearl after a Pearl of Power, the problem with that a Pearl of Power is a once per day item, while the Cantrip Pearl your proposed isn't.
So, for pricing purposes, I can only suggest two things, either you follow the magic item formula, or you go with your own gut feelings.
Tels wrote: The only comment I have about the Index is that it's a bit worrisome. I worry about how it interacts with things like bags of holding, portable holes or handy haversacks.
If the Index can't be stored in such objects, then a Wizard that stores his spellbook inside such an Index is ripe for a sunder happy enemy to destroy his book.
Generally, anything can be stored in such objects unless it says otherwise. You can store a bag of holding in a bag of holding for instance.
Tels wrote: Also, books can be very valuable, I've seen 'small libraries of 30 - 40 books' go for several thousand gold in modules before. Yeah, but books you keep you don't make money off of. If you do sell the books, well, it is easy enough to grab a whole bunch and stuff them in whatever you are using to cart things around. Or take a bit longer and do it more slowly.
Tels wrote: I won't comment on the Animated Armor as that thing is a prime candidate of a magical item that is more 'gut feeling' than rules when it comes to pricing. True enough.
Tels wrote: However, the Cantrip Pearls are essentially the same idea as the Apprentice's Cheating Gloves from Ultimate Equipment. They pricing formula for a magic item that gives you an at-will cantrip is .5 * 1 * 1,800 or 900 gp (450 to craft). However, since the Cantrip Pearl doesn't take up a slot (as opposed to the Apprentice's Cheating Gloves), it's cost is multiplied by 2 for a total of 1,800 gp.
While I know the idea is to model the Cantrip Pearl after a Pearl of Power, the problem with that a Pearl of Power is a once per day item, while the Cantrip Pearl your proposed isn't.
So, for pricing purposes, I can only suggest two things, either you follow the magic item formula, or you go with your own gut feelings.
Bear in mind that a Cantrip Pearl requires that you are able to cast said spell. Apprentice's Cheating Gloves are not like that. Just look at the price difference you'd calculate between an item that cast CLW wounds and anyone could use verses one that only someone with that spell could use (e.g. a wand). It's pretty big.
And yes, it is more than once per day. It's a cantrip though, which means (unlike a spell from a Pearl of Power) it doesn't scale with level and is very weak.
Look at the Ioun Stone cracked orange prism. "Add one 0-level spell to user’s spells known or prepared", costs 1000gp. So Tels is a bit off on the price...
graystone wrote: Look at the Ioun Stone cracked orange prism. "Add one 0-level spell to user’s spells known or prepared", costs 1000gp. So Tels is a bit off on the price... According to the formulas provided in the books, I'm not. Ioun Stones are a bit different because they have their own formula for cracked/flawed and often times have a 'gut feeling' thrown in too.
Not to mention, that Paizo doesn't always follow their own rules when crafting magical items.
Personally, I would prize a Cantrip Pearl in the 500 gp to 1,000 gp range. They just aren't powerful enough to go over that threshold, rules formula or not.
Drachasor wrote: And yes, it is more than once per day. It's a cantrip though, which means (unlike a spell from a Pearl of Power) it doesn't scale with level and is very weak. Whether something scales in power or note doesn't mean it should have a variance in how it works.
For instance, beyond the duration and range, the Sleep spell doesn't really scale in level, neither does Mage Armor, or Shield.
A Page of Spell Knowledge for Shield, Mage Armor or Sleep costs 1,000 gp, despite not really scaling beyond range and/or duration. Magic Missile, Burning Hand and Shocking Grasp all scale with level to deal more damage and/or fire more missiles. Those too only cost 1,000 gp to purchase them as a Page of Spell Knowledge.
Sleep becomes practically useless beyond 5th level, while Mage Armor and Shield still have some use. Magic Missile is useful even at higher level, while Shocking Grasp and Burning Hands tend to fall by the wayside unless you're a Magus or something.
They all still only cost 1,000 gp though, despite the variance in spells.
Heaven forbid we talk about spells like Vanish which can be very powerful when used correctly.
I'm not saying the Pearls of Power (1st) shouldn't cost 1k.
But let's be honest. A caster getting unlimited access to a cantrip is much, much weaker than a first level spell in the grand scheme of things. Especially past 1st level.
And let's be honest, Mage Armor getting enhanced duration is quite worthwhile. Same with Shield.
The best cantrips are probably Disrupt Undead (1d6 damage only to undead) and Daze (dazes one HUMANOID of 4HD or less for 1 round, can only work on a given target once per minute). Both of those are significantly less powerful than 1st level spells. (DU has limited targets and requires a ranged touch attack, and doesn't scale. Daze has limited targets, limited reuse, and hit die cap).
I mean, there was a reason they made cantrips unlimited in PF compared to limited in 3.5. It's because they are weak.
It just doesn't seem justified to price one unlimited cantrip (which is only unlimited because cantrips a naturally unlimited) at the same price as a 1st level spell.
Though, I suppose if we REALLY wanted to get into gritty details, the pricing should matter depending on what spell you turn into a cantrip. I suppose.
That make any sense to you, Tels? I'm not saying there aren't weak first level spells that scale poorly. Merely that cantrips are quite a lot worse than 1st level (so much so they are unlimited in PF). Doesn't seem like an equal cost is justified. At least not to me.
Well, that's why the price guidelines are just guidelines. Sometimes a combination of effects becomes more valuable than the pricing suggests, while other times it's just a bit of flavor wrapped into a magic item.
The first step in the guidelines mentions to "compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide".
I'd go with pricing the pearl similar to the ioun stone.
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I like the ideas presented here! I've had a few of my own tumbling around in my own notes. Things like a Utility Vest (filled with unique cantrip replacing stuff for a non-caster to use), Superior Spectacles (for a wide range of detection magics), and the Camping Stick (a rod that makes adventuring feel better than staying at an inn).
I was in the process of thinking of a type of book to store a large amount of scrolls, encyclopedias, etc; I was coming up with a "proper" Archivist class and the scrolls would be key to it, so this kind of magic item made sense.
So I'm very interested on your take of a "Book of Holding", so to speak.
A while back, when trying to figure out the pricing for my own dimensional holding stuff, I figured the pricing per pound of storage based on the existing items:
Bags of Holding
Type I: 10gp / lb
Type II: 10gp / lb
Type III: 7.4gp / lb
Type IV: 6.7gp / lb
Handyhaversack: 16.7gp / lb
Efficient Quiver: 18gp / lb
A couple things to note though...
- 1. All are slotless, cost-wise.
- 2. There's more of a discount the more space you get in one item, since likely there's a drop off in utility at the higher end of the money scale.
- 3. The handy haversack allows faster access and no AoO. The efficient quiver keeps the equipment ready to be drawn as part of combat (arrows, etc). These likely inflate the costs respective to the regular bags of holding.
.In my case, I was intending for the Archivist to use this magic item to pull his scrolls from, so it'd be better priced as the haversack. I'd then treat it as that (move action to retrieve the scroll, no AoO). It then competes/makes sense to have compared to just stuffing your scrolls in a handy haversack in the first place.
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As for what happens to extradimensional space items when placed in each other, there's the following note:
Quote: Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. The only different reaction is the portable hole vs the bag of holding, which either explode and suck into the void, or blast an area into the Astral Plane, whichever way you place them.
It specifies only the bag of holding though, despite talking about other dimensional items and effects (like rope trick or handy haversack), so it's a specific thing about those two items.
If you placed this book in a handy haversack or bag of holding, it just wouldn't be usable from inside it. Same with trying to access it when going into a rope trick. Or, I assume, a created Demesne too. So it has it's limitations, just not exactly catastrophic.
Tels wrote: graystone wrote: Look at the Ioun Stone cracked orange prism. "Add one 0-level spell to user’s spells known or prepared", costs 1000gp. So Tels is a bit off on the price... According to the formulas provided in the books, I'm not. Ioun Stones are a bit different because they have their own formula for cracked/flawed and often times have a 'gut feeling' thrown in too. "compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide". You skipped over that part.
Drachasor wrote: I'm not saying the Pearls of Power (1st) shouldn't cost 1k.
But let's be honest. A caster getting unlimited access to a cantrip is much, much weaker than a first level spell in the grand scheme of things. Especially past 1st level.
And let's be honest, Mage Armor getting enhanced duration is quite worthwhile. Same with Shield.
You can get the humble ray of frost to do 1d3+1d4+15. Toss a few metamagic reduction abilities and you've got some really nifty things you can do every round.
I love the cantrip pearl. I will give the best compliment that I can. I'm going to copy+paste that into my list of homebrew items. (your name will, of course, be associated with it.)
graystone wrote: You can get the humble ray of frost to do 1d3+1d4+15. Toss a few metamagic reduction abilities and you've got some really nifty things you can do every round. Yes, if you're level 20 and do almost everything possible to buff that one spell (short of sneak attack). Not really a relevant balance point. Not remotely.
More relevant is considering 3rd-4th level. Maybe you can spend 2k on such items items. Do you buy 2 Pearls of Power (1st) or 2 Pearls of Cantrip or one of each?
The PoPs will serve you far better. Frankly, anything you REALLY want to do with cantrips for power, you can already do. Another cantrip just gives you a bit of variety for flavor. Doesn't affect power in any meaningful way.
I do realize one of the books prices a very similar item at 1k (which I didn't know about before). I don't see how that isn't overpriced. Compare it to the other things you can get for that amount....and well, a cantrip just doesn't hold up.
Kaisoku wrote:
I like the ideas presented here! I've had a few of my own tumbling around in my own notes. Things like a Utility Vest (filled with unique cantrip replacing stuff for a non-caster to use), Superior Spectacles (for a wide range of detection magics), and the Camping Stick (a rod that makes adventuring feel better than staying at an inn).
I was in the process of thinking of a type of book to store a large amount of scrolls, encyclopedias, etc; I was coming up with a "proper" Archivist class and the scrolls would be key to it, so this kind of magic item made sense.
So I'm very interested on your take of a "Book of Holding", so to speak.
A while back, when trying to figure out the pricing for my own dimensional holding stuff, I figured the pricing per pound of storage based on the existing items:
Bags of Holding
Type I: 10gp / lb
Type II: 10gp / lb
Type III: 7.4gp / lb
Type IV: 6.7gp / lb
Handyhaversack: 16.7gp / lb
Efficient Quiver: 18gp / lb
Yeah, I looked at that too for the Bag of Holding. 2.5k for 250 lbs, 2.5k more for another 250lbs, 2.5k more (about) for another 500lbs, and 2.5k more for another 500lbs (total 1500 by that point). So generally the price seems to get cheaper per pound. I tried to factor that into the prices since it seemed like a type IV BoH couldn't hold enough books by my standards. I wanted to avoid scroll and other access concerns which is why I made it a full-round action to get stuff out of.
Sphen wrote: I love the cantrip pearl. I will give the best compliment that I can. I'm going to copy+paste that into my list of homebrew items. (your name will, of course, be associated with it.) Thanks! Knock yourself out. Apparently there is an Ioun stone pretty much just like it, but the official version seems overpriced. At least it does to me.
Drachasor wrote: graystone wrote: You can get the humble ray of frost to do 1d3+1d4+15. Toss a few metamagic reduction abilities and you've got some really nifty things you can do every round. Yes, if you're level 20 and do almost everything possible to buff that one spell (short of sneak attack). Ok, lets look at first. My winter witch does 1d3+1d4+2 with a ray of frost at 1st. At second, it'll be 3 more points and I've only spend one feat. Most of the buffs are also NOT just for the cantrip but work for most of the spells they have. It's really not hard to buff your spells, including your cantrips.
Drachasor wrote: More relevant is considering 3rd-4th level. Maybe you can spend 2k on such items items. Do you buy 2 Pearls of Power (1st) or 2 Pearls of Cantrip or one of each? Me? Pearls of Cantrip (or ioun stone).
Drachasor wrote: I do realize one of the books prices a very similar item at 1k (which I didn't know about before). I don't see how that isn't overpriced. Compare it to the other things you can get for that amount....and well, a cantrip just doesn't hold up. The only difference is that the ioun stone doesn't care is the cantrip is on your list. Is that worth twice (or 4 times) the price?
I'll be honest, I think you discount cantrips too much. If I played with you and I could buy pearls of cantrips for 250gp, I'd but enough so I could cast every cantrip I could cast/use. After that, I'd pick up cantrips not on my list with the stones. Better yet, if I could make them... There's a LOT of cool things you can do with 30+ cantrips usable at will.
graystone wrote: Drachasor wrote: graystone wrote: You can get the humble ray of frost to do 1d3+1d4+15. Toss a few metamagic reduction abilities and you've got some really nifty things you can do every round. Yes, if you're level 20 and do almost everything possible to buff that one spell (short of sneak attack). Ok, lets look at first. My winter witch does 1d3+1d4+2 with a ray of frost at 1st. At second, it'll be 3 more points and I've only spend one feat. Most of the buffs are also NOT just for the cantrip but work for most of the spells they have. It's really not hard to buff your spells, including your cantrips.
Drachasor wrote: More relevant is considering 3rd-4th level. Maybe you can spend 2k on such items items. Do you buy 2 Pearls of Power (1st) or 2 Pearls of Cantrip or one of each? Me? Pearls of Cantrip (or ioun stone).
Drachasor wrote: I do realize one of the books prices a very similar item at 1k (which I didn't know about before). I don't see how that isn't overpriced. Compare it to the other things you can get for that amount....and well, a cantrip just doesn't hold up. The only difference is that the ioun stone doesn't care is the cantrip is on your list. Is that worth twice (or 4 times) the price?
I'll be honest, I think you discount cantrips too much. If I played with you and I could buy pearls of cantrips for 250gp, I'd but enough so I could cast every cantrip I could cast/use. After that, I'd pick up cantrips not on my list with the stones. Better yet, if I could make them... There's a LOT of cool things you can do with 30+ cantrips usable at will. Create Water + Ray of Frost + Prestidigitation (color, flavor, create minor item) = Snow Cones!
graystone wrote: Drachasor wrote: graystone wrote: You can get the humble ray of frost to do 1d3+1d4+15. Toss a few metamagic reduction abilities and you've got some really nifty things you can do every round. Yes, if you're level 20 and do almost everything possible to buff that one spell (short of sneak attack). Ok, lets look at first. My winter witch does 1d3+1d4+2 with a ray of frost at 1st. At second, it'll be 3 more points and I've only spend one feat. Most of the buffs are also NOT just for the cantrip but work for most of the spells they have. It's really not hard to buff your spells, including your cantrips. Ahh, didn't realize the Witch angle. Thanks for pointing that out.
Well, I see the 1d3+1d4. Power Component adds +1. Havoc of the Society adds +1 force damage.
Not seeing where you get 3 more points at 2nd. Help me out?
Drachasor wrote: More relevant is considering 3rd-4th level. Maybe you can spend 2k on such items items. Do you buy 2 Pearls of Power (1st) or 2 Pearls of Cantrip or one of each? Me? Pearls of Cantrip (or ioun stone). Sure, let's think about this logically though.
You have 4 Cantrips prepared.
So you have Ray of Frost ALREADY. You will always prepare this.
You have 3 more. Well, I guess you'll pick Daze as another.
2 more. Detect Magic.
1 more. This one isn't bringing a whole lot to the table.
Now, after that one more, what's going to be so powerful? That's the thing about additional cantrips. You're going to pretty much have all the big ones prepared already. Another 1st level spell though...that could be another Enlarge Person or Mage Armor. That's big stuff.
Drachasor wrote: I do realize one of the books prices a very similar item at 1k (which I didn't know about before). I don't see how that isn't overpriced. Compare it to the other things you can get for that amount....and well, a cantrip just doesn't hold up. The only difference is that the ioun stone doesn't care is the cantrip is on your list. Is that worth twice (or 4 times) the price?
I'll be honest, I think you discount cantrips too much. If I played with you and I could buy pearls of cantrips for 250gp, I'd but enough so I could cast every cantrip I could cast/use. After that, I'd pick up cantrips not on my list with the stones. Better yet, if I could make them... There's a LOT of cool things you can do with 30+ cantrips usable at will. There are "cool" things you can do, but they don't affect game balance at all. They are flavor stuff. That's one reason why cantrips have unlimited casts, because they are so minor. All the big ones you can prepare already too. The rest of the stuff is of much, much rarer utility, far rarer in utility than 1st level spells.
But maybe I'm wrong. Show me something that will surprise me.
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