you're Interpreting what I posted wrong.
You don't have the Required CL. You don't have the required CL four times over. It doesn't matter if you're upgrading once or five times. You don't have the CL.
Upgrading from a +2 to a +3 would not obviate the fact that you don't have the requirement to do get to +2, so you're missing TWO requirements as you try to upgrade, and so you...
Why do I need to meet 4 separate CL requirements? I see no RAW for more than once. Are you saying I need to re-enchant what is already there?
CRB p553 ** spoiler omitted **
Nothing said here that indicated you need to re-enchant.
Or, you can consider that he's missing all his benchmarks along the way, and is going to get penalized at each of them, and now he's looking at DC 40 to make vorpal, DC 35 for spell storing, and you might actually need a good craftsman to make the thingWell, lets see how difficult this really is.
Pathfinder is human-centric, so...
Of course it's possible to super-specialize and potentially be able to break even the highest DC's, especially if you have outside help and blow all your wealth on magic items.
But your average crafter who wants to be able to do more then just make magic weapons can't 'design himself' the way you can make a PC, and likely won't have all those bonuses (you forgot the headband +2 Int is also 4k...I think he's over his WBL).
I mean, you're talking making a feat investment in Skill Focus (spellcraft) of all things, and then blowing another feat on extra traits! Eeesh.
What I gave was a simple recommendation so that a normal crafter at level 5 has no bloody way they are going to make a +5 weapon, and you actually have to go looking for a legendary class smith to get the job done.
And I also said it was completely optional. It's just interpreting the rule a bit more strictly then you might otherwise, in an attempt to add some believability to the art of making magic toys.
==Aelryinth
Thenobeldrake asked why?
Because i thought it would be less argumentative than saying ban all crafting feats as they suck and are one of the worst things in the game
Magic items should be hard won not made by spending some gold and a little down time
That's nice. House rule away the existence of item crafting if that's what you like. Just make sure you tell your players before they decide to make a spellcaster, since you're taking away one of their major strengths. A GM that decided I wasn't allowed to make a wand of magic missile just because is a GM to whom I'd happily wave "goodbye".
Alternately, in your parlance, "go home you are drunk".
Of course it's possible to super-specialize and potentially be able to break even the highest DC's, especially if you have outside help and blow all your wealth on magic items.
But your average crafter who wants to be able to do more then just make magic weapons can't 'design himself' the way you can make a PC, and likely won't have all those bonuses (you forgot the headband +2 Int is also 4k...I think he's over his WBL).
I mean, you're talking making a feat investment in Skill Focus (spellcraft) of all things, and then blowing another feat on extra traits! Eeesh.
What I gave was a simple recommendation so that a normal crafter at level 5 has no bloody way they are going to make a +5 weapon, and you actually have to go looking for a legendary class smith to get the job done.
And I also said it was completely optional. It's just interpreting the rule a bit more strictly then you might otherwise, in an attempt to add some believability to the art of making magic toys.
==Aelryinth
As explained in the post, the headband was crafted, thus only taking 2000. I agree that placing most of an NPCs wealth in a headband may not happen. It only adds one point, and can be skipped. As to the Skill Focus feat, that was suggested by 3.5's DMG2 p155. It sais "Feats: A specialist takes any feats that could boost the modifier for his chosen skill as soon as possible." For stat distribution, see Creating NPCs (Step 2). That tells how to assign the stats, so he gets an 18 Int as indicated. Without the other magic item (1250 of his wealth, and recommended by DMG2 at 4th level), he looses another 5. So... without magic or the skill focus feat you object to, he still gets DC 26 when taking 10. As to Extra Traits, I said if he wanted to get higher, he could. I did not add them in.
This is not a super specialized NPC. He had 150gp for other stuff, and 2 unused feats (3 if retraining is used). If he did not make the headband, his target DC was one less, and he was 2000 richer. I fail to see the wizard's apprentice as being outside help. Literature if full of wizards with one. I did say if the GM allowed more than one person aiding, he could hit even higher. This NPC spent three of five feats to do this. He still can hit high enough with only one feat. A super optimized NPC would spend all feats for this.
Oh, and by the way, 5th level is legendary.
/cevah
A +5 weapon should only be DC 20, right? (15 CL, +5 DC). But DC 25 since you lack the caster level. If you're an int-bonus race and bought the 18, your int is +5, your ranks are +5 at 5th level, your class bonus is +3, so you're already up to a +13 minimum. Take a valet familiar archetype, you're at +15 from the automatic boost, and get double crafting rates, and you can take 10, so you get a 25 automatically.
No need for a feat or a +int headband to get there, just need to blow too much of your point buy on int and pick a race with +int, like sylph or something.
See my post upthread for an NPC that can hit DC 35 all the time. I was looking for something from the familiar, but did not spot the archtype. Aelryinth thinks it is too optimized for an NPC. Do you?
/cevah
Legend Lore gives the approximate cutoff for "legendary" as 11th level, I'd point out. :)
At first I thought you meant the book. Then realized you meant the spell. :-)
Yeah, you are right. Guess I was thinking of what others said about a 5th level person is a superman compared to real life people.
/cevah
|
If the FAQ is aimed at the crafter only, why does it talk about Party WBL?@Cevah
I think you are forgetting the first row of the FAQ, the actual question to wich the FAQ answer:
The way in which the question is done implies that the answer is aimed at a PC with a crafting feat.PC Wealth By Level: If a PC has an item crafting feat, does a crafted item count as its Price or its Cost?
It counts as the item's Cost, not the Price. This comes into play in two ways.
<snip>
If you're looking at the party's overall wealth by level, you have to count crafted items at their Cost. Otherwise, if you counted crafted items at their Price, the crafting character would look like she had more wealth than appropriate for her level, and the GM would have to to bring this closer to the target gear value by reducing future treasure for that character, which means eventually that character has the same gear value as a non-crafting character--in effect neutralizing any advantage of having that feat at all.—Sean K Reynolds, 01/14/12
Because you (the GM) are comparing the wealth of the person with the crafting feat and the wealth of the people without the crafting feat.
If the guy with the crafting feat has paid half price for half of his gear items, if you use the price to evaluate his WBL you get that he has 125% of the WBL of the other party members.The FAQ speak of comparing the WBL of all the members of the party, not of comparing the WBL of the party against the "ideal" WBL.
The FAQ does not say anything about comparing.
The FAQ talks about "overall wealth". A singular thing. There is no check of one character's wealth to another's wealth. What is the "overall wealth"? It is each PC wealth summed up. You expect it to be about the same as the sum of each PC's WBL. It tells you how to count crafted items. It makes no distinction who made the item./cevah
It is all in the FAQ, you simply refuse to see it.
* [b]PC Wealth By Level[b]: If a PC has an item crafting feat, does a crafted item count as its Price or its Cost?
PC, not the party.
* If you're looking at the party's overall wealth by level, you have to count crafted items at their Cost. Otherwise, if you counted crafted items at their Price, the crafting character would look like she had more wealth than appropriate for her level, and the GM would have to to bring this closer to the target gear value by reducing future treasure for that character, which means eventually that character has the same gear value as a non-crafting character--in effect neutralizing any advantage of having that feat at all.
If you are looking at the whole party WBL, why the player with the crafting feat would seem richer? The whole party would seem richer than the same number of characters in a party without crafting feats. If you aren't comparing WBL between the party members no one would seem individually richer.
Instead the FAQ say, if you are looking the WBL of the party, i.e. if you are looking the WBL of all the party members, one of them, the one with the crafting feat, would seem richer.
Notice how it continue to speak of a single character that "would look like she had more wealth than appropriate for her level" and that "the GM would have to to bring this closer to the target gear value by reducing future treasure for that character". If the FAQ was speaking of the total WBL of the party it would have spoken of limiting the treasure for all the party, not for a specific character.