I am creating a Cleric for PFS play and am trying to optimize the build. I have decided on Dwarf and will probably go with the Good and Travel domains. My goal is to create a primary buffer/debuffer with the ability to participate in melee.
PFS uses a 20 point buy and so my stats will be 16, 14, 13, 12, 10 and 10. The final stats after racial modifiers will probably be Str 13, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 14. Or I will possibly switch the Wis and Cha so it will be Wis 18 and Cha 12.
I don't want to have lower than average Int because I don't want to roleplay a dumb character. And I don't want less than 10 in Dex because I don't want a penalty to my AC.
I will probably pick Combat Casting as my first level feat.
How does this all sound? Viable? Strong or weak? Is it worth giving up the one point of AC in order to have a higher stat elsewhere? Is it acceptable to have a 7 Int and still roleplay as a reasonably intelligent character (and give up the 1 skill point per level)?
Any advice on better feats, better stat distribution, better domains or any other kind of general advice would be greatly appreciated.
I like your stat distribution, I would probably go with Wis 18, Cha 12. Your domains are also fine. As a dwarf, I suggest you take as your first lvl feat Steel Soul and combine it with the trait Glory of Old. My feats for the first lvls would probably be:
1 Steel Soul
3 Improved Initiative
5 Warrior Priest
7 Combat Casting
9 Power Attack
For a different flavor consider an Evangelist cleric. See this build originaly posted by Damocles Guile:
Dwarven 20th level Evangelist (Madness Domain)
Dwarven favored class option, Deep Warrior
Attributes: (20 point buy)
STR - 10
DEX - 14
CON - 14 (+2 racial modifier)
INT - 12
WIS - 16 (+2 racial modifier, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th & 20th)
CHA - 8 (-2 racial modifier)
Traits:
Glory of Old (+1 saves vs. Spells, Spell-like Abilities & Poison)
Militant Merchant (+1 Perception, Perception is class skill)
Feats:
1st - Lingering Performance
3rd - Spell Focus: Enchantment
5th - Spell Focus: Necromancy
7th - Spell Penetration
9th - Greater Spell Penetration
11th - Discordant Voice
13th - Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
15th - Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
17th - Quicken Spell
19th - Improved Initiative
Skills: (3 ranks/level)
Perception - 1/level
Sense Motive - 1/level
Profession: Miner - 1/1st level
Perform: Oratory - 1/2nd - 11th level
Knowledge: Planes - 1/12th - 20th level
Da G8keepah wrote: I am creating a Cleric for PFS play and am trying to optimize the build. I have decided on Dwarf and will probably go with the Good and Travel domains. My goal is to create a primary buffer/debuffer with the ability to participate in melee.
Make an early choice.
Are you going to Channel in combat or not and need Selective Channel (hence CHA 13)?
If Yes, then pick Selective Channel and stick with the 14 CHA.
If No, then swap STR and CHA (thus 16 STR and 11 CHA to start).
Combat Casting is a feat that will be used very rarely. You may not use it once per three sessions on an average in your career. You'll get more mileage by taking Improved Initiative, as you'll be able to use it every combat. This usage theory is just something to use as a feat measuring stick.
A potential stat array weighted for more casting oomph...
S: 14 D: 10 C: 15 I: 10 W: 18 Ch: 10
How do you plan on participating in melee with only 13 Str and 10 Dex? That won't make any of your attacks worthwhile.
Do you have the Advanced Race Guide? If so, you should check out the Forgemaster archetype for Dwarves. It drops Channel Energy (so you don't need to worry about that Cha penalty), and replaces it with some rune-scribing abilities based on Int (so you have a reason to invest a few points there). It also adds some spells that will boost your melee power (lead blades, keen edge), and (in the PFS version) gives Heavy Armor Proficiency for free at 3rd level.
Rory and RDN gave some good advice. If you go with the Forgemaster you wont need any dex due to getting full plate. If you plan on melee combat you will need some strength. I would look into the glory (heroism) domain. I wouldn't worry too much about CHA, also I wouldn't put more than a 13 before racials into WIS. After your racials you will have a 15 and at level 4 you can bring it up to a 16. In PFS the most you are going to get is 6 level spells.
I have the Advanced Player's Guide but not the Advanced Race Guide.
I've never played a Cleric and I have never played with a point-buy system. All of my previous experiences have been homebrew, easy-going reasons to drink with friends while playing a game. We have always used a very generous rolling method that basically guarantees an 18 and no score lower than 10. So all of this is new to me.
I am not looking to be a melee juggernaut by any means. I mainly want to be there to hinder my foes and aid my allies with spells, but I have no desire to stand in the back with a sling or crossbow. I will likely go with a warhammer and buckler combo (assuming I can't cast while wielding a light or heavy shield and hammer because my hands are full). I figured I could go up to 14 strength at level 4 in order to boost my melee potential and then at level 8 and 12 increase my wisdom.
The Forgemaster archetype sounds interesting. I probably won't use Channel all that much during combat. As such, the stat array that Rory suggested sounds solid.
Improved Initiative is very tempting. The main reason I was considering Combat Casting was because I assumed I would usually be in melee when I needed to cast a spell. Is that not really viable? Should I focus on standing in the back, debuffing and buffing as necessary and mainly forget about being a secondary melee fighter?
To OP - there are a lot of class guides for cleric. Possibly seven. Start with Tark and Brewer. It is a sad truth that clerics are far more effective if their career advance scheme (aka build) is worked out in advance. Figure out the steps to get there. It sounds like you are on the right track.
If you must cast a spell while a foe threatens you something has gone terribly wrong. It can usually be avoided. Love the 5' step. Get feats you will use all the time. You will never regret feats like Toughness or Improved Initiative.
Clerics with very different builds are as different as night and day. A few common types are: Traditional Support Cleric, Caster Cleric, Battle Cleric, Undead Lord, Bad Touch Cleric, Reach Cleric, Channeling Specialist, Healing Specialist, Summoner Cleric, even archer cleric. Some are more optimized than others. They can all be fun to play.
With a cleric it's important to pick an approach at 1st level and stick to it. Since you requested a battle-capable, melee-capable sort, three of the above 'builds' or pseudo-archetypes fit: Support, Battle, and Reach. Clerics don't need anything beyond the Core Rule Book to be very effective. The APG is just icing on the cake for such a strong class.
The Evangelist archetype costs you one domain & weakens channeling, but you gain Inspire Courage as a Bard of the same level. This powerful buff will hasten your allies on the path to victory, and will be with you your whole career. Evangelist works better for some approaches than others. Don't get this if there's already a Bard in your party.
I just looked up the Forgemaster archetype. I'm not a fan of losing out on domain options, but its very flavorful. Click HERE for an example of a cleric thats very well rounded and will be in melee. Its a very impressive build.
Da G8keepah wrote: The main reason I was considering Combat Casting was because I assumed I would usually be in melee when I needed to cast a spell. Is that not really viable? Should I focus on standing in the back, debuffing and buffing as necessary and mainly forget about being a secondary melee fighter? By all means, don't forsake your melee cleric desire! It is very viable. It is Combat Casting that you may be mistunderstanding.
Combat Casting is necessary...
...IF you need to cast a spell and
...IF you are in melee and
...IF you need to stay in melee
At low levels, you aren't going to have that many spells to cast that are going to be more important than just taking a swing with your weapon. Your need to cast a spell isn't going to be great. You always have channeling to fall back on to emergency heal an ally as well, which can be done while threatened in melee.
The point of being in melee for you will be to whack someone with your hammer. Once you get to melee, that's going to be your go to flavor? Well, be good at whacking something and save the spell. Before entering into melee, that's the best time to cast your buffs/debuffs.
But there will come times when you NEED to cast a spell.
The most common option is to simply 5 foot step away from the foe(s) and then cast the spell. Another option is to simply move away, take an Attack Of Opportunity, and then just cast the spell. Combat Casting will only help this if you find you are trapped and can't 5 foot step or don't have the hitpoints to chance the AOO.
And then there are the times when you NEED to cast a spell and NEED (or are forced) to stay in combat. Those are the cases that are where Combat Casting does help. Those cases are really rare though, and the most annoying will be getting grappled. But, while grappled, you'll just whack them with your hammer and let the gods sort it out!
Da G8keepah wrote: I am creating a Cleric for PFS play and am trying to optimize the build. I have decided on Dwarf and will probably go with the Good and Travel domains. My goal is to create a primary buffer/debuffer with the ability to participate in melee. Sounds great! If you click my name, you'll see a bit about my build. I'm a cleric of Iomedae, and very focused on melee and (self-)buffing. Not so much on the debuffing, though.
Quote: PFS uses a 20 point buy and so my stats will be 16, 14, 13, 12, 10 and 10. The final stats after racial modifiers will probably be Str 13, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 14. Or I will possibly switch the Wis and Cha so it will be Wis 18 and Cha 12. I would strongly caution you against such a high CHA. First, you're fighting a racial penalty, so it's crazy expensive. Second, it only does so much for you; Channeling isn't a very important ability unless you want to be focused on in-combat healing (or doing something special with your Channels, which it doesn't sound like you're doing).
Quote: I don't want to have lower than average Int because I don't want to roleplay a dumb character. Note that in Pathfinder, "normal" stats (i.e., what the bulk of the population has) range from 8-13 before racial modifiers. So an INT of 8 isn't "dumb", it's just not sharp. Go to 7, though, and you're looking at something... let's call it "noticeable". ;)
Quote: I will probably pick Combat Casting as my first level feat. I would advise against it. If you're going for a melee/caster hybrid, you're deciding whether to cast or attack based on whether or not you're in melee. That is, if you're already in melee, then you're attacking, not casting, so there's no need to cast defensively. If you're not in melee, then you can cast freely. I think I've tried to cast defensively maybe twice in 9 levels.
Hope that helps!
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